Thieves Guilds

[Azure Trance]

When I think of Thieve guilds, the first thing to come to mindis seedy establishments with hidden rooms in the back where dark cloaked figures gamble, extort, smuggle, etc.

But for some reason I haven't associated modern day crime syndicates with medieval / renassiance thieves guilds. Crime for both is their forte, and modern day crime organizations are easy to use as a source for information when detailing a thieves guild.


I think, at least.


There exists today the Mafia (I think three types - Italian, Sicilian and American), the Triads (Chinese), Yakuza (Japenese), Drug Cartels (Columbian, Mexican), Biker Gangs (Smaller in scale; Hells Angel as example), and then normal ethnic gangs for each country (Korean street gangs in Hawaii; Yardies in Britain).

But its hard to distinguish a medieval crime guild to be as distinct as the above examples. It's the various ethnicities, specialities in crime (Human trafficking, drugs, extortion ...), and history with the local governing powers and other crime powers. Perhaps the above real world examples would be good to use portions of for use in game (Mafia + Vegas + '60s = Generic Guild + Gambling City) but without all the details of the real world it would seem to be doomed that each theives guild would be synonymous with each other and bland (Just another high level rogue in control of rogue minions).

 

[Sanackranib]

thieves guilds

one of the PC's (rogue) in my Scarred Lands campaign has encountered 2 so far and both are radically differn't. the first which he joined is very lawfull, wealthy, diplomatic and has a whole lotta style. the 2nd makes Jabba the Hutt's palace look like summer school. totally chaotic and decadent. it really made his skin crawl! different guilds are an extension of who rules them. and ven to Rogues some are a whole lot more helpfull than others

 

[Hand of Evil]

Small time or small city thieves guilds to me would relate to gangs, prostitution, illegal drink/drugs, protection, gaming/numbers, hi-jacking.

It is interesting how much crime is related to a few people. While it is possible for no guild to be around, sooner or later some one wants a part of the action and starts to take over.

 

[Sanackranib]

guilds

Small time or small city thieves guilds to me would relate to gangs, prostitution, illegal drink/drugs, protection, gaming/numbers, hi-jacking.

It is interesting how much crime is realed to a few people. While it is possible for no guild to be around, sooner or later some one was a part of the action and starts to take over.

the Llangwyr guild (guild #1 in my last post) was heavily into the high end of prostitutition and blackmail, but their main business is in the casinos that they own and run. they also arrange for "securitity" as they require protection money from all merchants who want to do business within the city, this gives them a vested interest in keeping "freelancers" at bay, because they have to protect their investments and diruptions are "bad for business" in a way the're good for the city because they are lawfull (organized) and have a lot of bribed officials, this reduces the unorganized street gang type crimes dramatically, making business owners at least safer. the adverage person on the street still has to deal with pickpockets and the like but these too are organized and over predation is actively "discouraged"

 

[Drawmack]

I play in Freeport. This comes with a thieves guild that is made up of only halflings. I put a second guild in that is lawful. They just follow their own set of laws kind of like the mafia. The book Traps & Treachery from FFG has an entire chapter on designing and building Thieve's guilds as does song and silence the two used in conjunction are an indespensible tool for DMs running urban focused campaigns.

 

[drnuncheon]

I play in Freeport. This comes with a thieves guild that is made up of only halflings. I put a second guild in that is lawful. They just follow their own set of laws kind of like the mafia. The book Traps & Treachery from FFG has an entire chapter on designing and building Thieve's guilds as does song and silence the two used in conjunction are an indespensible tool for DMs running urban focused campaigns.

I also play in Freeport, which specifically doesn't have an overarching Thieves' Guild (it was broken a hundred years ago in the Back Alley War) - and I don't think my players would have any problem differentiating the Naïlos from Finn's group from the Blue Lantern Gang. (Finn's group, BTW, is not all halfling - his chief enforcer Dunbar and most of the Hellhounds that follow him are human).

The trick is, like with NPCs, to give them a 'hook'. The Naïlos are all elves, Finn's people are secure enough in their control of the Eastern District to flaunt their allegiance, etc. The hooks can also come in areas of the city they control, or types of crime they specialize in. Streetwise characters may know that the fence that gives the best price on jewels works for Family X, but Family Y are the people you want to see to actually steal things for you.

The Mongoose Quintessential Rogue has some nice stuff on running thieves guilds too (as well as assassins, spy rings, and mercantile organizations).

J

 

[schporto]

I'd imagine the biggest illegal activity in a medievil setting would be smuggling. All those lords charging taxes gotta be avoided somehow. While the thieves guild would also be attached to the prostitution I'd think of them less as pimps and more as blackmailers (spying on who is paying whom). Simple thievery and begging being another notable part of it. Gaming would be part of it, but that'd probably be their legitamite business (asumming we don't have a local lord that outlawed it). As for ransom - I'd think most theives would avoid that. Its just too dangerous.
-cpd

 

[arwink]

I still use the rules from the old Complete book of theives to generate guilds. It works okay.

I do try to give them some variety though.

 

[Sanackranib]

old book of theives

a lot of that info has been encorporated into 3e in the quintissential rogue and traps and trechery. IMO these books are essential for the DM who wants to flush out a theives guild

 

[Altin]

One way I define organisations of this type is in reference to the strenght of the recognised 'lawful' authority. The more centralised and coherent the law enforcement forces, the more likely are you to have a single highly secretive, disciplined and organised group.

Conversely, the less power and influence the law holds, the more likely are you to see a multitude of competing and openly operating guilds with large, indiscriminate memberships and fairly chaotic operating procedures (freeport being a case in point).

Modern criminal organisations tend to have to deal with fairly well-organised law enforcement (compared to the medieval period, anyhow) and so tend to be of the former type whereas there is usually no real reason for the criminal organisations of the period in which D&D roughly takes place to be of that nature. Effective use of magic on the part of the law (ie divinations) may change that, however.

What I am essentially saying is that criminal groups don't operate in a vacum but are rather shaped by the society within which they grow up and one fairly fundamental on the group by the society is the sort of opposition the later present to it.

Yours,
Altin