Things that annoy you as DM?

[Gnarlo]

I hate it when people hijack cool threads to continue an argument that should probably be discussed in its own thread.

Clearly they came here for an argument, and this is abuse.

Thought of annoyance finally; players who don't read the (very short, paragraph long) synopsis emailed out before the game if it's been a while since the last session, and then can't remember what happened last.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Things that annoy you as a DM?

To sum it up in 1 word: Players.

They beat up my monsters, frighten my NPCs and break my precious plotlines


Also, players that buy their own 3rd party splatbook... then get stroppy if it doesn't get used, exactly as it is: mostly because it's full of prestige classes with class abilities like '+4 spellcaster levels', 'auto-death-mega-kill touch' or 'exactly like great cleave buy you can teleport up to 26 miles between strikes'.

 

[Ylis]

My major annoyances as a GM:
Well, a lot's already been covered, but here's a few that I don't *think* I saw already

-Players that pick up your loose change. Darn it, that's MY penny on the floor. (Ok, it seems petty, but it's still MONEY )

-Players that invite their non-playing friends/girlfriends/boyfriends to gaming sessions, then proceed to disrupt the game until the GM screams at the top of her lungs that it's unacceptable and threatens the offending party with her d30 of Throwing +4 until they scurry out the door, only to return the next day....

-Players that roleplay too much. Out of game. If you are still your Elven Ranger when you see me at the grocery store, please fail to recognize me.

-Annoying neighbors that want to roleplay, but are horrible at it and have been banned, yet still persist in coming over for various reasons throughout the roleplaying night. Really! <rolls eyes>

-Kids. My major annoyance as a GM. And not anyone else's kids, either - my own. I can't start a game until after 9pm, when they've gone to bed. <sigh>

-The Experts. Ok, I understand if you have a 3rd degree blackbelt in 90 different martial arts that you know what you're talking about when a certain move is made. I don't. Details are fine on a need to know basis, but when no one cares, or needs to know the difference between move x and move y and how move x is more appropriate to the situation, yada yada, please refrain from the 30 minute tangents.

-The Phony. The long lost cousin of the Expert. You know the one. He says he's got a 3rd degree blackbelt in 90 different martial arts (and he *may* think it's true), but he doesn't have even a white belt in anything. The one that, when he finds out you're a pagan, is all of a sudden a Warlock of some dark, sinister powers....

Ok, I think that's some of what I've had to deal with...of course, all the really good ones are already mentioned

 

[Campbell]

Long, but Hopefully Worthwhile Post on Social Skills

Although the side-tangeant of how to play out soical skills in our games, doesn't rreally belong here, I'll try to comment. Let's take a look at what our social skills actually do according to the SRD:

First Diplomacy:

DIPLOMACY (CHA)
Check: You can change the attitudes of others (nonplayer characters) with a successful Diplomacy check; see the Influencing NPC Attitudes sidebar, below, for basic DCs. In negotiations, participants roll opposed Diplomacy checks, and the winner gains the advantage. Opposed checks also resolve situations when two advocates or diplomats plead opposite cases in a hearing before a third party.
Action: Changing others' attitudes with Diplomacy generally takes at least 1 full minute (10 consecutive full-round actions). In some situations, this time requirement may greatly increase. A rushed Diplomacy check can be made as a full-round action, but you take a -10 penalty on the check.
Try Again: Optional, but not recommended because retries usually do not work. Even if the initial Diplomacy check succeeds, the other character can be persuaded only so far, and a retry may do more harm than good. If the initial check fails, the other character has probably become more firmly committed to his position, and a retry is futile.
Special: A half-elf has a +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy checks.
If you have the Negotiator feat, you get a +2 bonus on Diplomacy checks.
Synergy: If you have 5 or more ranks in Bluff, Knowledge (nobility and royalty), or Sense Motive, you get a +2 bonus on Diplomacy checks.

Commentary: It seems Diplomacy isn't the be all/end all decisive factor for social situations. It allows you to alter an NPC's perceptions, but Diplomacy isn't Dominate. It can't force someone to do something they wouldn't normally do, and it still requires players to direct conversations to get what they want. Just because someone is willing to be helpful that doesn't always mean that they are going to do exactly what you want them to. They also need to know what you want, and quite often this requires conversation, to hammer out the details.
The secondary effect on Negotiation is a bit tricky here, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the advantage referred to here isn't all encompassing based on some experience with contaract negotiations I've had. The third affect is basically the same as the second, except that you are dealing with a third party whose needs and desires might not fit into line with either of the arguing parties' agenda.

Now Let's Look at Bluff:

BLUFF (CHA)
Check: A Bluff check is opposed by the target's Sense Motive check. See the accompanying table for examples of different kinds of bluffs and the modifier to the target's Sense Motive check for each one.
Favorable and unfavorable circumstances weigh heavily on the outcome of a bluff. Two circumstances can weigh against you: The bluff is hard to believe, or the action that the target is asked to take goes against its self-interest, nature, personality, orders, or the like. If it's important, you can distinguish between a bluff that fails because the target doesn't believe it and one that fails because it just asks too much of the target. For instance, if the target gets a +10 bonus on its Sense Motive check because the bluff demands something risky, and the Sense Motive check succeeds by 10 or less, then the target didn't so much see through the bluff as prove reluctant to go along with it. A target that succeeds by 11 or more has seen through the bluff.
A successful Bluff check indicates that the target reacts as you wish, at least for a short time (usually 1 round or less) or believes something that you want it to believe. Bluff, however, is not a suggestion spell.
A bluff requires interaction between you and the target. Creatures unaware of you cannot be bluffed.
Feinting in Combat: You can also use Bluff to mislead an opponent in melee combat (so that it can't dodge your next attack effectively). To feint, make a Bluff check opposed by your target's Sense Motive check, but in this case, the target may add its base attack bonus to the roll along with any other applicable modifiers.
If your Bluff check result exceeds this special Sense Motive check result, your target is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) for the next melee attack you make against it. This attack must be made on or before your next turn.
Feinting in this way against a nonhumanoid is difficult because it's harder to read a strange creature's body language; you take a -4 penalty on your Bluff check. Against a creature of animal Intelligence (1 or 2) it's even harder; you take a -8 penalty. Against a nonintelligent creature, it's impossible.
Feinting in combat does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
Creating a Diversion to Hide: You can use the Bluff skill to help you hide. A successful Bluff check gives you the momentary diversion you need to attempt a Hide check while people are aware of you. This usage does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
Delivering a Secret Message: You can use Bluff to get a message across to another character without others understanding it. The DC is 15 for simple messages, or 20 for complex messages, especially those that rely on getting across new information. Failure by 4 or less means you can't get the message across. Failure by 5 or more means that some false information has been implied or inferred. Anyone listening to the exchange can make a Sense Motive check opposed by the Bluff check you made to transmit in order to intercept your message (see Sense Motive).
Action: Varies. A Bluff check made as part of general interaction always takes at least 1 round (and is at least a full-round action), but it can take much longer if you try something elaborate. A Bluff check made to feint in combat or create a diversion to hide is a standard action. A Bluff check made to deliver a secret message doesn't take an action; it is part of normal communication.
Try Again: Varies. Generally, a failed Bluff check in social interaction makes the target too suspicious for you to try again in the same circumstances, but you may retry freely on Bluff checks made to feint in combat. Retries are also allowed when you are trying to send a message, but you may attempt such a retry only once per round.
Each retry carries the same chance of miscommunication.
Special: A ranger gains a bonus on Bluff checks when using this skill against a favored enemy.
The master of a snake familiar gains a +3 bonus on Bluff checks.
If you have the Persuasive feat, you get a +2 bonus on Bluff checks.
Synergy: If you have 5 or more ranks in Bluff, you get a +2 bonus on Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sleight of Hand checks, as well as on Disguise checks made when you know you?re being observed and you try to act in character.

Commentary: Beyond the combat applications Bluff is a much more straight-forward skill than Diplomacy is. Basically you're trying to get someone to believe something they wouldn't otherwise believe, which can be as simple or convoluted as you want it to be. However Bluffs like "I'm not you're enemy" or "This sword is worth more gold than you've ever seen in your life" aren't what I'd call highly believable without further explanation. There are modifiers built into the skill system that already govern this viabiity by my estimates.

Here's Gather Info:

GATHER INFORMATION (CHA)
Check: An evening's time, a few gold pieces for buying drinks and making friends, and a DC 10 Gather Information check get you a general idea of a city's major news items, assuming there are no obvious reasons why the information would be withheld. The higher your check result, the better the information.
If you want to find out about a specific rumor, or a specific item, or obtain a map, or do something else along those lines, the DC for the check is 15 to 25, or even higher.
Action: A typical Gather Information check takes 1d4+1 hours.
Try Again: Yes, but it takes time for each check. Furthermore, you may draw attention to yourself if you repeatedly pursue a certain type of information.
Special: A half-elf has a +2 racial bonus on Gather Information checks.
If you have the Investigator feat, you get a +2 bonus on Gather Information checks.
Synergy: If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (local), you get a +2 bonus on Gather Information checks.

Commentary: Gather Info is pretty much a game-time saver skill. It's not really meant to dole out information that's too specific. This kind of information should probably be in the line of general inklings, since the skill indicates that the character using it isn't spending too much time with any given individual. I think it's also important to take the 'May Draw Attention to Yourself' clause.

Now Here's Intimidate:

INTIMIDATE (CHA)
Check: You can change another's behavior with a successful check. Your Intimidate check is opposed by the target's modified level check (1d20 + character level or Hit Dice + target's Wisdom bonus [if any] + target's modifiers on saves against fear). If you beat your target?s check result, you may treat the target as friendly, but only for the purpose of actions taken while it remains intimidated. (That is, the target retains its normal attitude, but will chat, advise, offer limited help, or advocate on your behalf while intimidated. See the Diplomacy skill, above, for additional details.) The effect lasts as long as the target remains in your presence, and for 1d6×10 minutes afterward. After this time, the target's default attitude toward you shifts to unfriendly (or, if normally unfriendly, to hostile).
If you fail the check by 5 or more, the target provides you with incorrect or useless information, or otherwise frustrates your efforts.
Demoralize Opponent: You can also use Intimidate to weaken an opponent?s resolve in combat. To do so, make an Intimidate check opposed by the target?s modified level check (see above). If you win, the target becomes shaken for 1 round. A shaken character takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws. You can intimidate only an opponent that you threaten in melee combat and that can see you.
Action: Varies. Changing another's behavior requires 1 minute of interaction. Intimidating an opponent in combat is a standard action.
Try Again: Optional, but not recommended because retries usually do not work. Even if the initial check succeeds, the other character can be intimidated only so far, and a retry doesn?t help. If the initial check fails, the other character has probably become more firmly resolved to resist the intimidator, and a retry is futile.
Special: You gain a +4 bonus on your Intimidate check for every size category that you are larger than your target. Conversely, you take a ?4 penalty on your Intimidate check for every size category that you are smaller than your target.
A character immune to fear can?t be intimidated, nor can nonintelligent creatures.
If you have the Persuasive feat, you get a +2 bonus on Intimidate checks.
Synergy: If you have 5 or more ranks in Bluff, you get a +2 bonus on Intimidate checks.

Commentary: Not much to say here. Beyond being opposed by a level check the only real social ramifications of this skill are similar to the Influencing NPC Attitude portion of the Diplomacy skill.


And Finally Sense Motive:

SENSE MOTIVE (WIS)
Check: A successful check lets you avoid being bluffed (see the Bluff skill). You can also use this skill to determine when something is up (that is, something odd is going on) or to assess someone?s trustworthiness.

Task Sense Motive DC
Hunch 20
Sense enchantment 25 or 15
Discern secret message Varies

Hunch: This use of the skill involves making a gut assessment of the social situation. You can get the feeling from another's behavior that something is wrong, such as when you're talking to an impostor. Alternatively, you can get the feeling that someone is trustworthy.
Sense Enchantment: You can tell that someone's behavior is being influenced by an enchantment effect (by definition, a mind-affecting effect), even if that person isn't aware of it. The usual DC is 25, but if the target is dominated (see dominate person), the DC is only 15 because of the limited range of the target's activities.
Discern Secret Message: You may use Sense Motive to detect that a hidden message is being transmitted via the Bluff skill. In this case, your Sense Motive check is opposed by the Bluff check of the character transmitting the message. For each piece of information relating to the message that you are missing, you take a -2 penalty on your Sense Motive check. If you succeed by 4 or less, you know that something hidden is being communicated, but you can't learn anything specific about its content. If you beat the DC by 5 or more, you intercept and understand the message. If you fail by 4 or less, you don't detect any hidden communication. If you fail by 5 or more, you infer some false information.
Action: Trying to gain information with Sense Motive generally takes at least 1 minute, and you could spend a whole evening trying to get a sense of the people around you.
Try Again: No, though you may make a Sense Motive check for each Bluff check made against you.
Special: A ranger gains a bonus on Sense Motive checks when using this skill against a favored enemy.
If you have the Negotiator feat, you get a +2 bonus on Sense Motive checks.
Synergy: If you have 5 or more ranks in Sense Motive, you get a +2 bonus on Diplomacy checks.

Commentary: Sense Motive is an anomaly in that unlike all the other 'social' skills it is reactive. It's major use as a social skill is in detecting bluffs which really doesn't need much illiteration. The hunch mechanism on the other hand seems like a nice effect that you could use to alter your descriptions as a DM.

General Commentary: I think it's important to take a look at how the rules actually handle things before we get embroiled in an arguement over how things should be handled in our games. I say handle them how you like to handle them, but keep in mind what the designers of D&D had in mind if you like to do that sort of thing.
Generally speaking I like how these skills function by default. I don't believe that they discourage roleplaying, but rather encourage roleplaying while adding a 'character gradient' into the mix. To each their own.

* Thanks for this debate guys. It gave me an extra spurt of energy this morning.​

 

[Ylis]

General Commentary: I think it's important to take a look at how the rules actually handle things before we get embroiled in an arguement over how things should be handled in our games. I say handle them how you like to handle them, but keep in mind what the designers of D&D had in mind if you like to do that sort of thing.
Generally speaking I like how these skills function by default. I don't believe that they discourage roleplaying, but rather encourage roleplaying while adding a 'character gradient' into the mix. To each their own.

I agree wholeheartedly Of course, I think the debate ended, lol I'm pretty sure everyone agreed to disagree...as it should be

 

[Neo]

Things that annoy me as a DM

1. Players thinking they have done you a favour by turning up, and having absolutely no consideration for the work and effort, let alone cost and time you put in on thier behalf before hand for thier to EVEn be a game.

2. Players who think of thier characters in terms of thier Stats, bonus, levels etc.... e.g So whats your Strength then mines 16... or I have whirlwind attack and am 12th level i am a GOD! as these are the foodstuffs of the munchkin.

3. Players who cannot open thier minds to the concept of something not being used as it was printed e.g. BUT THE BOOK SAYS... There are times when thier is confusion over a rule such a thing is appropriate, but when you house rule something differently and players just cant or wont accept it.. it just annoys.

4. The Pizza place getting your order wrong I HATE ANCHOVIES!!!!

5. Any player who suggests a new campaign by starting off I think we should play 14th level characters...you know just for a while...

6. Players who come up with a new character by flicking through the Monster Manual Can I be a............ <sigh>

7. Not having a proper gaming room, with a proper gaming table, squared matts, surrounded by bookshelves with the rulebooks on for easy access and a nice easy to access miniatures storage near the table... hmm I must rebuild my house <sigh>

8. Players who do not think of thier characters in any regard beyond the session they play... I like players to make plans for thier characters, hhave aims, goals, things they want to achieve.. and players not wanting to put the effort in because they cant be bothered and don't want to risk the possibility of having some more paperwork added to thier character bug me.

9. New books NOT being put through my mailbox on a daily basis from companies who are grateful for me having put in 24 years to the hobby and hellping to support them getting a wage by having bought thier books for so many years... (Well a DM can hope cant he LOL).

10. Players who when they cant solve a puzzle, or come up with a plan, or otherwise "think" a little, that just sit there in a mood and give up completely.

Well..you did ask

 

[Soundbyte]

Players who expect me to arbitrate their personal disputes with other players just because I'm the GM, or leave it wholly to me to enforce general discipline and courteous behaviour during game sessions.

Soundbyte