Things that Should have been in the original 3e Monster Manual

[S'mon]

1. Wilderness encounter tables (since they weren't in DMG).
2. An entry for Humans, like the ones for Elves, Dwarves etc.
3. The rest of the missing monsters from the 1e Monster Manual.
3. Death Knights, & various other classic monsters.

Agree/disagree? Anything else?

 

[Grazzt]

I disagree....because then I would've most likely never done the Creature Catalog and we would've never done the Tome of Horrors.

 

[Eternalknight]

2. An entry for Humans, like the ones for Elves, Dwarves etc.


Agree/disagree? Anything else?

This one I agree with, and hope they do so for 3.5. A list of the common Human types, like MErchants, Blacksmiths, Bandits, etc.

 

[Gez]

1. Wilderness encounter tables (since they weren't in DMG).
Disagree. Never use them, and they take a lot of place. IMHO, this is the kind of stuff that is better as a web-enhancement. This way, it may be updated easily; especially if presented in an HTML form -- it may even be imported into a spreadsheet then.

2. An entry for Humans, like the ones for Elves, Dwarves etc.
Agree. Also, for most humanoids, provide also a statblock with the favored class rather than the default warrior. And a sample of a level 3 or 5 character that could be used as a leader for a mob. And an ECL given for each creature having a *Thingie* Characters section.
3. The rest of the missing monsters from the 1e Monster Manual.
I would tend to agree, but I would need to know what they are.
3. Death Knights, & various other classic monsters.
Agree. Banshee, death knight, phenix, in particular. The dragons from Monsters of Faerûn, and the yellow dragon as well. And finally, the damn lupins and rakastas. They're as valid as gnolls and lizardfolk.

Somehow, I think that the Monster Manual should not be 360 pages, but 720, and be really, really, full of beasties.

 

[Gez]

I disagree....because then I would've most likely never done the Creature Catalog and we would've never done the Tome of Horrors.

Come on, there would still have been the MM2, the innumerable MCs (how many of them has there been, between the annuals and the setting-tied ?), the Fiend Folio, the dragons and white dwarf articles, etc.

 

[Grazzt]

Come on, there would still have been the MM2, the innumerable MCs (how many of them has there been, between the annuals and the setting-tied ?), the Fiend Folio, the dragons and white dwarf articles, etc.

LOL- yeah, I know......just thought I would respond because its 5am here and I am still up running on no sleep....

 

[S'mon]

LOL- yeah, I know......just thought I would respond because its 5am here and I am still up running on no sleep....

Hi Grazzt - yes, the failings of the Monster Manual obviously gave a big opening for 3rd party publishers!

Re encounter tables - although I don't use them much in the random-roll sense, I find them very handy for inspiration and getting an idea of what sort of encounters are suitable for a particular area. They're a good way to rate monster frequency, which you don't get from just a list of possible monsters.
Without them I've felt a bit lost-at-sea in 3e.

On a related topic, I find the lack of any Morale rules in 3e to be annoying (this could have gone in either MM or DMG) - as it is, I typically use OD&D & Warhammer's 2d6 system, if the 2d6 roll exceeds monster's Morale it runs away. Morale scores are typically in the 5 (shaky) - 10 (elite) range, with 7 as average.

 

[Gez]

On a related topic, I find the lack of any Morale rules in 3e to be annoying (this could have gone in either MM or DMG) - as it is, I typically use OD&D & Warhammer's 2d6 system, if the 2d6 roll exceeds monster's Morale it runs away. Morale scores are typically in the 5 (shaky) - 10 (elite) range, with 7 as average.

My own morale rule would be quite simple:

Will save.

Circumstance bonuses (+2, stacking) if:
- The enemy has been reduced 50%
- The leader is 3 level/HD or more above the rest of the group
- The leader has leadership
Circumstance penalties (-2, stacking) if:
- They have been reduced 50%
- They are 3 levels or more below enemies
- Their leader has been killed

DC 10 + average party level.

It's quick & dirty, but this way, no need to assign a new stat to monsters.

 

[S'mon]

My own morale rule would be quite simple:

Will save.

Circumstance bonuses (+2, stacking) if:
- The enemy has been reduced 50%
- The leader is 3 level/HD or more above the rest of the group
- The leader has leadership
Circumstance penalties (-2, stacking) if:
- They have been reduced 50%
- They are 3 levels or more below enemies
- Their leader has been killed

DC 10 + average party level.

It's quick & dirty, but this way, no need to assign a new stat to monsters.

I don't find that a d20 roll works well for Morale, which is a group effect - ie I want to know if the _group_ of orcs run away, not whether one orc is demoralised. Hence it needs more of a bell curve. I've tried 2e's 2d10 method but I find 2d6 is best and (for me) gives the most intuitive results. For single-character effects, d20 is fine. Rolling a mass of d20s for every member of the group and saying they run away if over 1/2 fail would be ok but take too long.

I don't find assigning the stat to be a problem since the value of the stat is completely up to me!

 

[Staffan]

The thing I miss most from the MM are outsiders. I think each of the main planar types (archons, aasimon, guardinals, eladrin, yugoloths, maybe rilmani and gehreleths) should have gotten the same attention devils and demons got. Instead, Celestials as a whole get a section that's slightly smaller than one of the devils or demons, and 'loths aren't even mentioned.

One thing I'd like to see in non-MM writeups for outsiders is a Summoning heading - can these guys be fetched by a Summon Monster spell, and if so what level?