Pathfinder 2E Things You Love about a Game: Pathfinder 2E edition (+)

[Retreater]

With the edition warring, anxiety about revisions, etc., I wanted to take a break from that negativity in my life.
I've got an uneven history with Pathfinder 2E.
Stage One: I disliked it greatly during the playtest
Stage Two: I had a bad experience with the first campaign I tried with the full rules
Stage Three: Enjoyed some Pathfinder Society at a virtual con
Stage Four: Had a mixed bag on my second campaign and abandoned it
Stage Five: Players rage quit the third campaign I tried
Stage Six: Finally found a group that seems to like it

That seems like a lot of trials and a lot of bad experiences, but I think it's been worth it. I think that PF2 is one of the best TTRPGs on the market today.
Things I love about Pathfinder 2E.
1) Three action economy
It's simple to explain, gives lots of variety, and players feel like they can do things
2) Best online tools in the industry
From Pathbuilder to Archives of Nethys to its implementation on Foundry VTT, it has the most complete (and free) rules online
3) Lots of player options
Ancestries, classes, builds - every party can look unique and most players can find something they're excited to play.
4) The lore books are fantastic
The Mwangi expanse book, for example, is beautiful. It's creative, it's varied, and it's unique.
5) Published adventures can go to 20th level
High level play is usually ignored by other game companies. Pathfinder 2 hasn't shied away from it.
6) Magic item economy
7) Great downtime rules
8) Rules for Skill Challenges
(The victory point system is basically skill challenges from 4e, reworked.)
9) Make your own monsters
It actually presents rules for making monsters (instead of just altering existing ones).
10) Non-magical healing is effective

 

[Staffan]

I really like the way ancestries are handled in PF2. It avoids the "all gnomes are X" problem of yore, but still makes gnomes feel like gnomes. I feel that they manage to strike a rather delicate balance between biological essentialism and having ancestry lack all mechanical meaning. There are details I would have done differently (e.g. remove ancestry stat penalties and have all ancestries give three stat boosts, and have ancestry weapon proficiencies upgrade automatically with class proficiency), but overall it's really well done.

Other than that I agree with most of your points. I disagree somewhat on downtime (unless there have been expanded downtime rules somewhere, I feel like the ones in the core book are more of a placeholder) and non-magical healing (once you get it fully online with boosted Medicine skill as well as Continual Recovery and maybe Ward Medic it's great, but that's like 7th level if you focus on it without being a skill monkey or using general feats to take skill feats). But other than that I agree with your points.

 

[jdrakeh]

I've only played a bit of it, but I really like the three action economy. Like, a lot. I really wish D&D's action economy was this simple.

 

[Retreater]

Other than that I agree with most of your points. I disagree somewhat on downtime (unless there have been expanded downtime rules somewhere, I feel like the ones in the core book are more of a placeholder)

Lots of more options in the Gamemastery Guide. Flipping through it is actually what inspired my OP.

 

[Staffan]

Lots of more options in the Gamemastery Guide. Flipping through it is actually what inspired my OP.

From what I can tell of the GMG, it's just more flavor to the two or three things you can do in downtime in the core rules: Earn Income, Craft (which is basically the same as Earn Income), and Retrain. When I'm thinking detailed downtime rules, I'm thinking along the lines of PF1's Ultimate Campaign which had downtime activities including running actual businesses and building both buildings and teams, doing research, recovering, or scheming to prepare for upcoming adventures. There's some support for that in the Infiltration subsystem, but not for overall "base building".

 

[W'rkncacnter]

as someone fairly new to pf2e (i've been playing it for the first time with a group i played 4e with and we got to level 4 recently), aside from what OP mentioned, i REALLY like the proficiency system. i think it strikes a very good balance between 3.x's skill ranks/attack and saving throw bonuses and 4/5e's on/off proficiency. the crit system is also neat though i don't really know how much i like it yet.

i also greatly appreciate that feats are split up by their source, so you're not stuck choosing between, say, untrained improvisation to become a better skill monkey or knockdown to bully people. it also means you get at least one important decision at every single level, which feels really nice (if potentially a little overwhelming - i don't know if i'll ever play a caster in this system).

 

[Catolias]

Things I like:
1. Options. Ancestry, Background Class - the ABC - give so many options for characters that allow players scope to be who they want
2. 3 action economy works sooo well and it’s great to see fighters get more strategic with how they get in and fight
3. The glossary/index - let’s face it the CRB is big and the glossary / index makes life easy and fast when you need to remember a rule, a condition, etc
4. I agree with the online tools. My fav is pf2easy and pathbuilder2e. Both make GM-ing simpler (certainly more so than when I did the ttrpg that shall remain nameless.

From what I can tell of the GMG, it's just more flavor to the two or three things you can do in downtime in the core rules: Earn Income, Craft (which is basically the same as Earn Income), and Retrain.

I don’t agree. Certainly there is a bit of that, but the GMG gives some common NPCs, which help with quick games and when players go somewhere you hadn’t planned out that well. Also, it gives different ways of managing xo awards or swapping it out altogether.

 

[Staffan]

I don’t agree. Certainly there is a bit of that, but the GMG gives some common NPCs, which help with quick games and when players go somewhere you hadn’t planned out that well. Also, it gives different ways of managing xo awards or swapping it out altogether.

I meant regarding downtime specifically. It has lots of other cool stuff, but the downtime section was mostly help with flavoring the existing downtime activities.

 

[Jahydin]

My party is about to hit Level 3 and I just can't say enough great things about this game.

Off the top of my head:

• Non-random attributes that are shaped by race, class, and background.
• Perfect combat math! Seeing a single +1 bonus result in a "crit" time and time again is so satisfying.
• Nerding out on all the different weapons and how each one works just a little differently.
• Challenging! So many encounters would lead to TPKs if the party just fought them head on like 5E encourages.
• System Mastery. Every time we play we slowly discover how some seemingly worthless action is a perfect one under the right circumstances.
• Awesome accessories. The cards, miniatures, map tiles, etc. are all of good quality and incredibly useful.
• Not afraid of taking risks. I mean, they put out a freaking Baphomet miniature complete with inverted pentagram; that's metal AF!

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Nerding out on all the different weapons and how each one works just a little differently.

oh man yeah i completely forgot about that. the weapons and armor are actually mechanically detailed and varied. it's great.

 

[Derulbaskul]

No particular order:
1. Pocket editions. Love 'em.
2. Archives of Nethys. Free and legal? Outstanding.
3. Pathbuilder.
4. Other free and legal online tools.
5. The designers actually designed a game around balance and teamwork.
6. Monster building and encounter building tools that actually work.

 

[Catolias]

5. The designers actually designed a game around balance and teamwork.
6. Monster building and encounter building tools that actually work.

OMG- That is so true and how could I miss that?!

I’m running a game that has scaled up from 5 to 8 players recently and, from my perspective, it has been so easy to scale the encounters up to match. Also, everyone has something they contribute to a game - tactically in combat, also with their skills. It’s a real joy to play.

 

[!DWolf]

PF2E is in my top 3 favorite rpgs. Some of the things I like about it:

• It is easy and fun to create satisfying combat encounters for any level party. And I can do it relatively quickly.
• I can also quickly adjust combat encounters to account for more or less players.
• Complex hazards are awesome and really increase environmental interactivity.
• The adventures can be pretty much be run out of the book with only a few minor adjustments.
• The XP system is pretty solid and easy to use.
• Exploration mode gives me the ability to do lots of interesting things mechanically outside combat.
• Strategy and Tactics really matter for both NPCs and players and you can get very nice strategy/counter-strategy play.
• The detailed skill system makes adjudication exploration and skill based actions much easier.
• It is much easier to avoid trap builds and massive PC power differentials.
• Build diversity is great enough that I don’t need to worry much about party composition.
• Running Abomination Vaults gives me flashbacks to the early 90 (in a good way).
• The game also remind me very heavily of Dark Souls/Elden Ring (also in a good way).

 

[Thomas Shey]

I'm playing in my third PF2e campaign (though the first was short), and the three things I've liked best are:
1. Engagement with the game actually pays off. More and more over time you have actual meaningful choices to make and thinking about them is worthwhile.
2. The encounter building generally really does work. That's astonishing given the history of such things.
3. The game does not break at higher levels. You can argue it occasionally suffers a little at the bottom end for some classes or setups, but its not cripplingly so, and its refreshing to have a game that takes its level progression seriously (D&D 4 did, but PF2e has managed to keep the number of moving parts a little more manageable while doing that).

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

I normally say something about exploration mode or game balance, but the options themselves-- there's so many cool monsters like the Swordkeepers, the Many and varied types of undead.

On the player side we've been thrilled with Thaumaturge lately, and the new Way of the Triggerbrand, the Chronoskimmer, Sleepwalker. Nagaji and Ghoran, Vanara.

Every book is brimming with new stuff we didnt even know we wanted and then we see it and we're like "well duh, of course we wanted this, here's a character concept for it"

 

[thullgrim]

Things I like about PF2:
(1) the three action economy is great, intuitive, simple to adjudicate when you have to.

(2) the procedural approach to visibility/invisibility etc.

(3) character creation and options

(4) it’s pretty easy to homebrew for.

(5) monster creation works.

(6) the encounter rating system actually works.

 

[Lojaan]

With the edition warring, anxiety about revisions, etc., I wanted to take a break from that negativity in my life.
I've got an uneven history with Pathfinder 2E.
Stage One: I disliked it greatly during the playtest
Stage Two: I had a bad experience with the first campaign I tried with the full rules
Stage Three: Enjoyed some Pathfinder Society at a virtual con
Stage Four: Had a mixed bag on my second campaign and abandoned it
Stage Five: Players rage quit the third campaign I tried
Stage Six: Finally found a group that seems to like it

I hope I am not derailing the thread by asking this but can you go into what caused you and your players to not like it initially? And, did you overcome this or just get used to it or something? It seemed like you went through a lot to get it up and running regular and I would like to (if possible!) skip the bad experiences and players rage quitting

I want to try PF2 next but I gotta say, the rulebook is not designed for new players. Or even experienced players new to the system.

 

[Catolias]

I want to try PF2 next but I gotta say, the rulebook is not designed for new players. Or even experienced players new to the system.

I have to disagree with this sentiment as an experienced player. I have played 3.x for 20 years and also with 5e for a bit. Yes it was different, but the CRB is beautifully laid out and easy to use — especially with the coloured tabs and excellent glossary.

I do agree that the CRB is physically overwhelming and large. Also, it requires recognising that, when you come to the game, you are not playing PF1E, 5e or any other system

 

[Lojaan]

I have to disagree with this sentiment as an experienced player. I have played 3.x for 20 years and also with 5e for a bit. Yes it was different, but the CRB is beautifully laid out and easy to use — especially with the coloured tabs and excellent glossary.

I do agree that the CRB is physically overwhelming and large. Also, it requires recognising that, when you come to the game, you are not playing PF1E, 5e or any other system

Thank you. That was hilariously unhelpful.

 

[Retreater]

I hope I am not derailing the thread by asking this but can you go into what caused you and your players to not like it initially? And, did you overcome this or just get used to it or something? It seemed like you went through a lot to get it up and running regular and I would like to (if possible!) skip the bad experiences and players rage quitting

Yes, I can get into that.
The first group I tried it with had a very "let's make sure we're getting the rules completely right - that's the only way we can fairly test it."
So it became a slog, trying to make sure every ruling was correct.
This applied also to running the Age of Ashes adventure path. They wanted it 100% by the book. And without adjusting for player skill and interests, the game became a lifeless bloodbath - like a difficult CRPG.
After that first experience, it wasn't so much about having to get the rules right, but it was following the APs we tried "to the letter." Clearly, this didn't work for the next two groups. APs (especially the earlier ones) are frustratingly difficult for players used to 5e.
I still have a player every week - in almost every combat - get so frustrated by the difficulty that he says things like "I'm dead - I'm going to need a new character" (and we're playing an easier AP, running the characters at one level higher, and I'm mindful to spread out the enemies.)
So here's my suggestion - don't start with an AP. Get the Beginner Box (and you'll do fine). Run some of the PF Society modules for your group. Don't try to jump in with an epic story - this doesn't play like D&D in my experience.
Don't run Severe encounters until your group gets used to the system. And when you do, be sure to telegraph the danger in advance and give them every opportunity to run away. (A Severe encounter with good GM tactics is a TPK waiting to happen.)