Third Edition Culture- Is is sustainable?

[diaglo]

I don't think it's a "trend" when you consider the likely long term evolution. I think it's coming off a peak that is to be expected; I imagine we'll settle into an equilibrium. Some people had expectations that weren't met, and moved on.

ditto. i don't see it as a trend either.

 

[fredramsey]

Man, I'd love some of what you're smoking.

Care to tell mw what page Attacks of Opportunity can be found in the 2nd Edition Player's guide?

older editions had flanking, tumbling, AoO, movement, etc...

 

[diaglo]

ENWorld has its share of vocal detractors of the system who can't get over attributes of the system that other people seem to like. And in absence of getting their way

ENWurld has its share of people trying to shout down the detractors. actually it has more fanboyz than detractors. and in the absence of getting their (the fanboys) way they too threadcrap.

 

[diaglo]

Man, I'd love some of what you're smoking.

Care to tell mw what page Attacks of Opportunity can be found in the 2nd Edition Player's guide?

i'm not as good with 2edADnD

but in OD&D and 1edADnD

if you fled melee combat... your opponent got a "Free" attack on you.

also weapons like spears and such set for charge, etc... had reach and allowed attacks before you engaged.

and if you had missile weapons in OD&D and 1edADnD readied.... you got to fire at your opponent if he moved in your area of range...


all of these are considered AoO now

 

[eyebeams]

In the real world (or as mearls calls it, "meatspace"), IME all these arguments about complexity and things they moan about don't crop up. My group -- and I imagine, most groups -- are just a bunch of people with some character concepts who get together a few times a month to play a game. Most people don't have the time or energy to express the sort of disgruntlement you allude to, nor advocate the system.

Also, in the real world, most people run the game incorrectly, from a technical (though not from any other) point of view. They flub totals for bonuses, get AoOs dead wrong and so on.

There's nothing wrong with this in play. The question you must ask yourself is whether or not it's worth it to pay great attention to a rules set that lends itself to being screwed up constantly, or whether the rules should be adjusted to match the screw-ups, leading to a simpler rules set.

(Yes, I'm sure some of you are complaining that you don't make mistakes with the rules. This being ENWorld, I generously figure 60% of you would be telling the truth.)

Part and parcel of 3e's design is that idea that the rules should require some investment of time to master -- that there should be differences between skilled and unskilled play. Some people find this enormously satisfying. Others think it's a pain in the butt. In the end, it's a matter of preference. Me, I fall somewhere in the middle. I like an orthodox game for very technical tactical skirmishes (I like to use a chessboard for these, actually), but want a more freewheeling system for other things.

What I think is problematic for a rules mastery "culture" is that many fans have invested so much time and energy in mastering the game that they are won't to be intolerant of unexpected variants. I see this over and over again on ENWorld and less often, elsewhere.

 

[Incenjucar]

All because they foolishly strayed from Chainmail, eh?

 

[Belen]

There are things I really like about D&D - the amount of material, the easy d20 mechanic, the versatility and options...
there are a lot of things I don't like, as well - a lot of these are minor, but I absolutely loath the time combat takes. Combat is just slow.

I'd switch to another system in a heartbeat, I must admit - if not for my group.They're great, and I'm having loads of fun with them. And if the group is right, who cares for the system anymore?

Not me.

A good group is a bonus and I fully understand staying with a system that everyone enjoys. My last group was somewhat difficult to GM with three rules lawyers and two newbies.

I have had a chance to change things up now that most of them have moved away, so I get to see what will happen with a different dynamic. Heck, maybe 3e will change radically.

However, I still intend to run demos of CinC and Blue Rose to see if they're a better system.

 

[fredramsey]

It all comes down to this.

Hey, I got a radical idea.

If you like 3rd Edition, play it.

If you don't like 3rd Edition, save yourself some money and don't play it.

If you post on a messageboard how "crappy" 3rd Edition is, be prepared to hear from people who like it. We're not going to sit by and not say anything.

If you post on a messageboard that you like 3rd Edition, be prepared for people to post that they do not like 3rd Edition. They aren't going to sit by and not say anything.

Now, was that so hard?

:\

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

I like 3.x, and don't anticipate ever going back to an older edition. The unified rules set is fine, and we don't have any trouble with slow combats. We just don't get enough game sessions to get it down pat like we did when we were younger and had fewer responsibilities. We get to play once a month at best, and it's frequently less than that.

 

[Storm Raven]

i'm not as good with 2edADnD

but in OD&D and 1edADnD

if you fled melee combat... your opponent got a "Free" attack on you.

I think you are looking back at common house rules and assuming they were in the rules as written. This rule was a house rule, not a printed rule.

also weapons like spears and such set for charge, etc... had reach and allowed attacks before you engaged.

That's not how the set rule worked, at least as written. It may have been a house rule you are recalling.

and if you had missile weapons in OD&D and 1edADnD readied.... you got to fire at your opponent if he moved in your area of range...

A house rule originally, and later a rule that only applied to missile weapon specialists as detailed in 1e Unearthed Arcana. In any event, that isn't an AoO in 3e.

all of these are considered AoO now

And were not part of the 1e rules as written, but rather common house rules. (And your last example isn't even an AoO, and doesn't exist in the current version of the game in any form).