Third Party Character Creation iOS App Removed

The d20 Fight Club for D&D 5th Edition iOS app has been removed from the Apple App Store by its creator at the request of WotC. The creator reports that he received a Cease & Desist demand (although it's worth noting that some supposed recent C&Ds appear to have turned out to be amicable requests). This follows on from the removal of the D&D Tools website and the more recent online character generator.

The creator reports that "I received a cease and desist order from Wizards of the Coast. All D&D apps will be removed from the App Store as they weren't compliant with WotC's copyrights and trademarks. Hopefully they'll be back in some form someday. Til then, thanks for all the support."

Nobody has actually shared one of these C&Ds yet, and others have indicated that what they actually received was simply a friendly email asking that they respect WotC's trademarks, so it's not entirely clear what is happening. Hopefully somebody will share one soon!

It does look like this particular app contained text and stat blocks copied directly from the D&D books. Below is the DM version of the app (the companion to the character creation app).

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[Shasarak]

And that's fair. Vote with your wallet. Give you money to someone else who is providing you with the products that you want.

That is a good point.

That still, in no way, means that WOTC should not protect its IP. Say, just for arguments sake, they leave this character builder alone. They let it run. It was priced as what, a 99 cent download from iTunes? Should that mean that not only should WOTC allow someone else to freeload off of its IP, but should also let that freeloader dictate their own price points? After all, if WOTC's character builder is $ 2.99 (for example) wouldn't you just buy the cheaper one?

If the only difference between a $2.99 character builder and a free character builder was the price then sure it is a no brainer. But if that $2.99 character builder came with a Dragon/Dungeon subscription then it is no longer so black and white with the obvious exception of a subscription based character builder of course.

In your mind, what rights does creating something and having the copyright to it confer?

Well for a start it gives you the right to try and earn my next $10. After all just because I have given you my first $10 does not entitle George or WotC to get the next $10.

 

[redrick]

Edit. Sorry. Snark removed.

 

[Dannager]

I am sure all long-running businesses know that customers are in fact worth going out of their way to cater to.

That is why they are long running businesses after all.

Cute.

I didn't say that WotC shouldn't bother catering to customers. I said that WotC shouldn't (and doesn't) bother catering to the demands of fickle consumers. "Customers" (as you are using the word) is a massive group, and WotC has found a market segment therein that keeps it afloat. It doesn't cater to all customers, because some customers are unreasonable and make silly demands of them (like demanding that they stop protecting their own intellectual property). But it caters to the reasonable ones.

After all, WotC and Hasbro are both long-running businesses.

You having $10 in your pocket doesn't make you worth WotC's time. Most of the country has $10 in their pocket. What makes you worth WotC's time is having $10 in your pocket, and being receptive to what WotC is offering. You aren't receptive. You might think that you are, but the second you start saying things like, "I won't consider purchasing their products until they give up on protecting their own intellectual property," you put heinous terms on the dialog between you and the company. You are no longer receptive. You - you, and a handful of other people - now must be satisfied that WotC has crippled itself; why in the world would you think that sounds like a good deal to WotC? They could much, much more easily (and inexpensively) expand their marketing efforts to draw in new customers than bow to your demands.

You have made yourself a poor prospect for companies like WotC. You will not find your personal desires given the same consideration that other consumers' desires are given.

 

[Shasarak]

You have made yourself a poor prospect for companies like WotC. You will not find your personal desires given the same consideration that other consumers' desires are given.

I presume when you (Dannager) say "you" you are referring to the general imaginary "yous" rather then specifically you (Shasarak).

 

[Dannager]

I presume when you (Dannager) say "you" you are referring to the general imaginary "yous" rather then specifically you (Shasarak).

Both in the general and the specific (assuming, that is, that you were actually referring to yourself when you described the $10 in your pocket that WotC wouldn't be getting).

 

[Shasarak]

Both in the general and the specific (assuming, that is, that you were actually referring to yourself when you described the $10 in your pocket that WotC wouldn't be getting).

Oh, OK. It was just that your post did not address me at all. After all it is not you who decides who gets to be a customer or not.

 

[Dannager]

Oh, OK. It was just that your post did not address me at all. After all it is not you who decides who gets to be a customer or not.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. This isn't about who "gets to be a customer or not". This is about which people WotC decides to target with their products and services. You don't need to be the within their target audience in order to be a customer, but you are certainly more likely to be a customer if you are.

Refusing to pay WotC $10 unless they give up their intellectual property protections is a lot like refusing to order pizza from Pizza Hut unless it replaces all of its delivery drivers with dudes on rollerskates. It doesn't make you powerful. It just makes it very easy to ignore you and focus on the people who are worth marketing to.

 

[Hussar]

That is a good point.



If the only difference between a $2.99 character builder and a free character builder was the price then sure it is a no brainer. But if that $2.99 character builder came with a Dragon/Dungeon subscription then it is no longer so black and white with the obvious exception of a subscription based character builder of course.



Well for a start it gives you the right to try and earn my next $10. After all just because I have given you my first $10 does not entitle George or WotC to get the next $10.

But now you are back to making demands. You will only pay if they also offer more than the free guy.

That misses the point that the free guy had no right to offer a free product at all.

 

[Shasarak]

But now you are back to making demands. You will only pay if they also offer more than the free guy.

That misses the point that the free guy had no right to offer a free product at all.

It is not a demand to expect a product that I am being asked to pay for to be worth the amount that is being asked. That is just basic economics.

All I know about your product is that it is $2.99.

 

[Dannager]

It is not a demand to expect a product that I am being asked to pay for to be worth the amount that is being asked. That is just basic economics.

Do you honestly not understand why we consider your expectations a little ridiculous? You're saying that someone can steal WotC's intellectual property, sell it, and force WotC to compete with its own property, and that you support this!

I mean, you even argued that tacking on a Dungeon or Dragon subscription might entice you. What if the IP-stealing app dude took the PDFs of Dragon and Dungeon and added those to his app? What's to stop him from doing exactly that with every value-add WotC tries to use to avoid having its market devoured by someone undercutting them with their own property?

Hell, imagine that you sold cakes, and that you baked 10 cakes every day. Imagine that someone came in the middle of the night, every night, and stole 5 of your cakes. Imagine that he then sold those cakes for $1.00 per cake. Imagine that you normally charge $10.00 per cake to cover your costs. Imagine that he set up shop, with your cakes, right next door. And - here's the kicker - imagine that people are telling you that you shouldn't do anything about him stealing your cakes and selling them, and that you are the unethical one for trying to fight back!