Third Party: If So, Then What?

[ggroy]

Mongoose's Quintessential series earned its bad reputation early on. They have been bad, boring, or broken since the early d20/OGL days. Frankly, I have no idea how they continued to churn them out. Someone must have liked them, I suppose.

Maybe the munchkin powergamers really loved them for being overpowered and broken?

 

[The_Gneech]

It's been said already, but it bears repeating.

Adventures. Stand-alone, non-"WotC-feeling" adventures.

To push my personal buttons, go strong Howardian sword-and-sorcery or strong Tolkienish literary fantasy ... but don't mix both into the same adventure.

-The Gneech

 

[Greg K]

It
To push my personal buttons, go strong Howardian sword-and-sorcery or strong Tolkienish literary fantasy

I want alternate mechanics and suggestions for tweaking the game to better caputure the feel of those.

 

[ggroy]

I want alternate mechanics and suggestions for tweaking the game to better caputure the feel of those.

What's the likelihood of a 4E Unearthed Arcana book of alternate rules, ever seeing the light of day?

 

[ggroy]

Yet the Pathfinder versions of adventures are consistently outselling the 4E versions. I suspect that the 3pp support will continue to be stronger for Pathfinder than for 4E. I can't say whether that's for licensing reasons, or because of the strength of the DDI in crunch support.

Is it possible that Pathfinder has attracted more of a hardcore player + DM crowd, than 4E D&D?

Over the years I got the impression that the more casual and less hardcore players + DMs, were not really interested in buying many splatbooks, modules, and other supplements (both WotC and 3pp). Even during the 3.5E D&D years, quite a number of casual players I knew did not even buy the 3.5E player's handbook.

These days, some of the more casual 4E players I've come across will just borrow somebody's computer with a DDI character builder, to make a character and print out the character sheet with all the power descriptions, etc ... Some of them have not even purchased the 4E player's handbook yet.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Making your own adventure is much less work in 4E than it is in 3E. Buying a 3E module saves you a lot more work than buying a 4E module does. As for Paizo specifically, they were primarily a module producing company before the release of Pathfinder, and fans of their modules were a built in audience for Pathfinder, and I'd be surprised if a higher percentage of Pathfinder RPG people wasn't also buying modules.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Is it possible that Pathfinder has attracted more of a hardcore player + DM crowd, than 4E D&D?

Over the years I got the impression that the more casual and less hardcore players + DMs, were not really interested in buying many splatbooks, modules, and other supplements (both WotC and 3pp). Even during the 3.5E D&D years, quite a number of casual players I knew did not even buy the 3.5E player's handbook.

These days, some of the more casual 4E players I've come across will just borrow somebody's computer with a DDI character builder, to make a character and print out the character sheet with all the power descriptions, etc ... Some of them have not even purchased the 4E player's handbook yet.

I've been wondering the same myself. Players/DMs that I know that didn't even know about third party publishers and only owned a few WotC books were more apt to go 4E than those that had a book case full of WotC book sitting right next to their five book cases full of 3pp material.

 

[darjr]

I've been wondering the same myself. Players/DMs that I know that didn't even know about third party publishers and only owned a few WotC books were more apt to go 4E than those that had a book case full of WotC book sitting right next to their five book cases full of 3pp material.

I must be the trend breaker. I think I owned more third party than WotC for a good great deal of time. I only had the first three books for 3.5. I have a ton of 3.5 setting books. Nary a WotC one. Mostly they were licensed settings.

I've got a ton of 4e books and subscribe to DDI, but I'm still on the lookout for third party settings and licensed settings... waiting for that 4e Freeport crunch book.

 

[karlindel]

I'll echo some others and say that third party player supplements are worthless to me. The Compendium and Character Builder have plenty of options in that regard, and adding third party material of that nature is more trouble than it's worth. I am similarly uninterested in monster supplements unless they are heavy on fluff that I could mine for ideas.

I would love to see good third party 4E adventures. The Wizards adventures are rather lackluster, and it would be nice to see more variety here. Drag and drop encounters with interesting terrain features and the like would also be useful. It's easy to put a basic encounter together, but adding cool set pieces to take it to the next level requires more effort.

A supplement of complex and detailed skill challenges that are handled well would also be worth looking into. I prefer skill challenges that involve interesting skill mixes, lots of secondary skill options that unlock side pieces, and where the skills used significantly impacts the nature of the success. Multi-layered and interlocked skill challenges are a lot of fun, but can take a lot of time to work on, and a supplement I could just pull them out of would be great.

Additional rules options are lower on my list, but good rules for expanding the 4E system into other genres (such as low fantasy or horror, rather than high fantasy) could be useful.

 

[Greg K]

I must be the trend breaker. I think I owned more third party than WotC for a good great deal of time. I only had the first three books for 3.5. I have a ton of 3.5 setting books. Nary a WotC one. Mostly they were licensed settings.

For 3e, the only WOTC books I own are: the 3.0 Core, Unearthed Arcana, MM2, Fiend Folio, and Book of Vile Darkness. The only other 3e WOTC books that I would buy are Heroes of Horror, Fiendish Codex 1, Lords of Madness, Stormwrack and, maybe, Complete Mage, PHB2, and Sandstorm. Generally, I was not a fan of the material published by WOTC during 3e.

In contrast, I own a lot of 3pp stuff with the printed material being, primariily, Green Ronin. The only other 3pp printed DND material being Experts 3.5, Book of Templates, Iconic Bestiary, and Noble Steeds (If not for funds, I would own more).