Third Party: If So, Then What?

[davethegame]

I agree with most of the posters above. I don't need new classes, feats, powers, items... I don't even care that much about new monsters (and if a product does include new monsters, it would be awesome to have those available as downloads to import into Monster Builder, but I have no idea of the legality of that.)

I need new adventures and settings. Use the abundance of rules and options that WotC already has out instead of adding to it with often imperfect results. I'd be perfectly happy buying an adventure with an interesting story that used nothing but Monster Manual monsters.

Also, I love poster maps and similar, so anything that includes that gets an automatic bonus from me.

After a first few 3rd party products that I obtained (some of which for free for review purposes) I decided I didn't need to touch 3pp at all due to some very questionable quality and understanding of the rules. But I would love some more takes on how to use the existing rules for my game.

 

[physicscarp]

I'd like to see some strong thematic adventures. I was really interested in Adamant's announced Against the Air Pirates, but that seems to have disappeared.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I'll echo the "adventures and campaign settings" call, not only as a consumer, but as a designer. Specifically, adventures and settings of a sort that Wizards isn't currently producing. Whether that means non-traditional fantasy, more of a "mature" focus, different cultures, different assumptions, whatever. These should have some new mechanics, but they should be heavily focused on the themes/details of the adventure or campaign setting.

I (obviously) have no idea if such things would sell, but I know that I'd love the opportunity to work on such things, and that it's these that I'd consider buying from a 3rd-party company.

 

[GreatLemur]

Now that I think about it, there are some places where 4e could use some new subsystems that wouldn't be in much danger of stepping on WotC's toes. Things like a crafting system, or rules for naval combat, etc.

Encounters! 4e encounters rely on terrain, hazards, and encounter groups. Strong encounters can be hard to do off the cuff. Dungeon Delve was great but something with even more generic, yet adaptable encouters would be great- an urban ambush, or some quick lairs, etc, scaled for different levels, that DM's could not only drop in anywhere but learn from (that last part means they need to be great stuff).

This is a great point, here. Encounters--clever little set pieces complete with statblocks and interesting maps--could be a lot more widely useful than adventures. DMs could string them together to make adventures, or keep them on hand for random encounters. Notes on how to adjust each encounter for higher or lower levels would be extremely handy, of course.

 

[JeffB]

Printed adventures THAT ARE NOT ADVENTURE PATHS

Thats my only real priority, though the "right" campaign helper type supplements would be considered i.e. Generic city/town or a generic "adventure region" like Bards Gate from Necro, The Haunted Highlands from TLG, etc.

 

[Truename]

Another call for really great adventures or encounters, particularly those that are more sophisticated than WoTC's. I'm currently running Scales of War, which is fine as far as it goes, but I'm starting to get an urge for something with more there there. (The recent Epic level adventure by David Noonan was a massive disappointment. Took a brilliant setting and turned it into generic mush.)

I don't want crunch because I don't trust 3pps to get it right. I don't need fluff because I'm running an adventure path. I want new adventures that will inspire me with better ideas about how to run the game, even if I don't ever run them, and that I can potentially drop into my SoW game in place of some of the more craptastic episodes.

 

[garyh]

I'll echo the "adventures and campaign settings" call, not only as a consumer, but as a designer. Specifically, adventures and settings of a sort that Wizards isn't currently producing. Whether that means non-traditional fantasy, more of a "mature" focus, different cultures, different assumptions, whatever. These should have some new mechanics, but they should be heavily focused on the themes/details of the adventure or campaign setting.

I (obviously) have no idea if such things would sell, but I know that I'd love the opportunity to work on such things, and that it's these that I'd consider buying from a 3rd-party company.

I'd also enjoy such products as a consumer. Ideas are much more valuable than crunch, especially since crunch can't be integrated into WotC's DDI tools.

 

[Glyfair]

Recently, there's been discussion of the impact of 4E on third-party support. Not many signed on, due to the terms of the GSL, and those that did (or chose non-licensed support) saw that official WOTC tools like the DDI had an adverse effect on sales -- as has been said, there's no point in doing character or rules options if they can't be reflected in the DDI.

I noticed that much of the early 4E third party content was player oriented. Some of that may have been the OGL theory that if you give content to players you have more potential customers.

I admit, I saw that content and gave it all a pass, regardless of the company. I didn't want the classes, races, etc. for 4E. WotC gave me enough, and the only "player" product I bought was the Advanced Player's Guide (which I bought, and offered my players use of, and none took me up on it).

For those 4E fans that do want third-party support, however --- I'm sure that my fellow publishers would love to know: Given the status quo (no implementation into DDI, etc.), what exactly would you like to see from third-party publishers?

So, that leads to the main question. I have answered it before, but I will reiterate it, and expand perhaps a bit.

I want adventures. The OGL gave us a lot of adventures that grabbed you, especially early on (Freeport, Witchfire Trilogy, half of Atlas Games products, most of Necromancer games). I really haven't seen that at all.

I also don't really want adventures that ignore the 4E parameters. That doesn't mean don't experiment. However, don't decide you dislike all the core assumptions of 4E adventure design that WotC set up and just write a 3E (or older) adventure with 4E stats. Pick and choose where you go in a different direction. Also, when you break away, don't always go back* in D&D history. try going in different directions. Go forward to ground breaking territory, or go sideways into areas that have been covered in other games but not D&D.

I want products that support running a campaign that aren't directly adventures. Personally I am not interested in campaign settings, but I might be interested in smaller campaigns (cities, valleys, etc). Others might want campaign settings, though, and it certainly is an area that WotC hasn't discouraged too much.

Some of my favorite OGL products were things like Atlas' En Route series, Necromancers' Book of Taverns (thanks Clark), and similar books. Give me things I can drop into my existing homebrew, or published setting without too much work.

Also, don't forget the creative non-systemic products. Paizo has dominated this area, I admit (partially by snapping up distribution of those other companies have developed). Adventures or locations with battle maps, tiles, miniatures, 3D terrain, etc. with 4E stats can gain traction if creative enough, and priced correctly.

 

[darjr]

There was a bunch of buzz, on the net and locally, for BlackMoor. The living campaign is what helped me here locally generate some buzz, I have players waiting for the campaign to start and the new book/books to come out.

So... a living campaign. I'll buy the books to support it, and I'll probably get a few others to as well.

The other thing I'd very much like to see is adventures. I am really spoiled by the WotC RPGA. I mean really. Something like Dungeon a day but more spread out. Something that would start to flesh out a sandbox hybrid with some interwoven stories.

Maybe a mini path or two in that sandbox, but also lots of encounters and short adventures I could pull, yoink, or mix and match.

 

[Holy Bovine]

Adventures and campaign settings are about the only thing I would look at for 3PP.