Third Party: If So, Then What?

[ggroy]

I'm sort of torn between the two styles, so the compromise I will probably reach is something akin to nine mini-adventures of between approx. 3-5 encounters each. With notes on how each could be linked to form one big adventure, or even how the mini-adventures could themselves be expanded.

Does that format sound appealing?

I could get into something like this.

Are you planning these modules as print or pdf/print-on-demand?

 

[kaomera]

Your argument is that some as-yet-unwritten 3PP setting for 4e can succeed where some of the best-written 3PP settings written by respected developers have generally not. On what exactly are you basing this supposition?

As an aside, what 3PP settings are you referencing? I think I've been missing out on a lot of 3PP stuff with 4e because the FLGS just doesn't carry it. With 3e you had Necromancer putting good quality books out right off the bat, with 4e I've seen Wraith Recon and the Blackdirge monster book, an that's it. Neither of those products really grabbed me, and Blackdirge at least seems to be languishing in quite some numbers at several local stores (I saw 5 copies at B&N just today).

Actually, I do remember that Goodman was supposed to be doing a book of mini-settings, IIRC, but I haven't seen it in print. I might have to hunt that down.

And how do you write a setting book worth having without classes and feats?

There are plenty of classes and feats in the core books. Tell me how they fit into the campaign world, which have special places within it - socially or in terms of being "secrets" held by a specific group or faction, which are rare or just don't exist. The core books contain a bare minimum of fluff, expand on or replace that.

While I'm sure I'm in the minority (at least) in that I don't really want any more crunch at this point. But with WotC putting out more each month I don't see why you need still more in a campaign setting in order to make it valuable.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

What would I like to see from a 3PP?

World detail.. conversions of books like Penumbra's Demagogues {social combat}, Wildscape {rules for adventuring in different terrain}, Golem-Craft {rules for building your own homuculi and Golems, town demographics and building rules {to include guilds and black market}, Poisen-crafters guide, expanded herbology/healing, naval adventuring, Guilds...

And if it can ever be figured out how to do it, Elements of Magic 4E

Ya know, stuff WoTC wont touch in detail.

 

[On Puget Sound]

I want settings and environments that are not well (or at all) supported by WotC. Aquatics, both seafaring and underwater. 3D combat aids for flying or underwater battles. Terrain-specific or genre-specific ecologies and cultures, and adventures set in them, with just enough crunch to make the flavor stand out. Some specific settings:
An urban political morass - Medici Florence meets Byzantium as done by White Wolf

A military campaign book - constructing a party as a military unit, with rules for sieges, artillery, skill challenge examples for leadership and tactics, etc.

Rules and ideas for a total wilderness or stone age campaign, where players must make or find everything. Not just no magic shops, but no civilization at all to fall back on.

Fantasy versions of interesting mythical or historical settings. Pharaonic Egypt, Three Kingdoms China, Aztec and Mayan empires.

An occasional feat or power in these is OK, even though it won't fit in Character Builder, but not a whole build or paragon path.

 

[pawsplay]

As an aside, what 3PP settings are you referencing? I think I've been missing out on a lot of 3PP stuff with 4e because the FLGS just doesn't carry it.

A list of 3pp settings with fairly substantial fan bases, which eventually faltered, which is a redundant distinction, since they virtually all did:

Midnight
Dragonlance
Scarred Lands
Blackmoor
Dragonstar
Iron Kingdoms
Kingdoms of Kalamar
Everquest
World of Warcraft

 

[Mouseferatu]

What definition are you using for "faltered"? Sure, they all ended eventually, but many of them had runs long enough that they can only be called "successful." Blackmoor 3E was being published right up until 4E came out. Scarred Lands had more releases than many of TSR's own 2E campaign settings. Kalamar and Dragonlance aren't far behind.

I'm wondering what it takes for you to consider a campaign setting a "success."

 

[mevers]

I'm sort of torn between the two styles, so the compromise I will probably reach is something akin to nine mini-adventures of between approx. 3-5 encounters each. With notes on how each could be linked to form one big adventure, or even how the mini-adventures could themselves be expanded.

Does that format sound appealing?

This sounds EXACTLY like what I am looking for. I have been dying for someone to produce 3 - 5 encounter adventures. Even better, in this model they come with a plot already linking them.

Do it well, and I will even be able to space the encounters out over 3 - 4 levels (I don't mind leveling them that far myself), effectively running a module during the course of 2 - 3 other adventures.

you could even release each mine adventure on it's own, and offer a bundle version if someone wants to buy all 9.

But please, make each of the encounters interesting, with good use of terrain and great encounter spaces.

 

[ggroy]

Scarred Lands had more releases than many of TSR's own 2E campaign settings. Kalamar and Dragonlance aren't far behind.

I've always wondered whether Scarred Lands or Kalamar would have been as prolific as they were, if there was no OGL and the d20 system license for 3E did not exist or was considerably more restrictive (ie. even more restrictive than the first version of the 4E GSL license, for example).

 

[jaerdaph]

I am now totally convinced that the only viable 3PP for 4e would be an Evony Campaign Setting.

SAVE YOUR LOVER!!!! PLAY NOW MY LORD!!!!

 

[Obryn]

I'm wondering what it takes for you to consider a campaign setting a "success."

Yeah, looking through the list, I'm thinking, "Wow, I'd consider these very successful settings, actually." I mean, I've heard of, seen products for, and purchased products for a sizable chunk of all of those - and each was at least successful and profitable enough to support follow-up supplements.

I guess I'm puzzled, because I don't think a setting needs to be supported forever to be a success.

-O