This DM is regretting let PCs run wild.

[Greenfield]

I've said it many times: You can't convince power-gamers that power gaming is wrong by trying to outpower them. All you do is convince them that they didn't have *enough* power.

My own best advice is to simply start saying "NO", loud and clear. Start by saying no to D&Dwiki and homebrew rules and classes. Those are house rules for somebody else's house.

Follow up by saying no to anything from a book or source you don't have access to. As in, a book you own, not simply something someone will let you borrow at the game table.

Make up some of your own house rules to curb the abuses. One good one I've seen is to establish that Prestige Classes are, for the most part, like private clubs. The secrets of the craft are taught only to people of note. That is, you have to actually be prestigious to be invited in. And some of these private clubs have rivalries, and take a dim view of someone who tries to join an opposing club, or tries to join too many.

My own best weapon in players-gone-wild situations is to know the rules you're using, and be ready to enforce them. A lot of abuses rely on liberl or loose interpretations of the rules, or on simply ignoring the inconvenient parts of the rules. Look at what they're doing with a critical eye, spot the creative interpretations and put your foot down.

If necessary, do a hard audit on the characters. See if they actually qualify for all their nifty advantages, and if they actually paid the price.

Now anybody can make a mistake, and a certain amount of error is going to happen. The penalty for toomany "mistakes" in this area (particularly the ones that weren't committed by mistake) shouldn't be "go back and fix this". It should be "Go back to the beginning and start over".

You started out too soft. Now you have to be extremely hard. Once you have the runaway horses reined in, you can give them some slack again, so long as you keep things under control.

(Know that my favorite DM ability is the one I call "Dispel BS"!)

 

[Kraydak]

First, it doesn't sound like you should have a problem. As described, the characters are nothing spectacular. I would recommend carefully checking whether the players made any mistakes about their characters' capabilities. If there are any, don't be aggressive about it: they were probably (only probably, but still, probably) actual mistakes/misreading. If there aren't any, frankly, the problem is on your end. And it isn't a problem of being permissive (it could have been, but with the characters described, it isn't). Mid-level DnD characters can get surprisingly powerful. It happens. Don't fight it, work with it (invoke higher level opposition, BUT CAREFULLY, if there are only 2 PCs, then save-or-suck effects can cause TPKs faster than you can blink, also, getting outnumbered can become a death-sentence shockingly fast).

Second, never, ever, neuter a character/build's focus (adequately stupid/narrow focuses have it coming, but it has to get really extreme). If one of the players is playing an artificer, that means that you can't suddenly have the campaign operate in a "no downtime/money to make things" mode. DM/Player rivalry must be kept friendly and civilized, or the game will die.

 

[Turik2100]

Well I just got back from my D&D session and to my surprise the tricks I used and the ones given to me by you guys worked. I was able to create a dungeon where they have to rely on their ability to think out of the box. So I think I'm going to continue this campaign cause my PCs say that this is the best story line they have ever played. I thank you guys for your advise but seriously I'll probably ask for more help in the future.

 

[Empirate]

Glad to hear the board could help you out. And congratz on your players' praise! I'd be interested in the kinds of out-of-the-box thinking you implemented, care to share?

 

[Turik2100]

Well I sent the PCs to an ancient temple to retrieve an artifact specific to our story line. In order to get into the temple they had to activate a magical circle, then when they got in they realized that the circle had not only sent them in but had transformed them into Kobolds (with Kobold stats, no class abilities and no items). Then in order to explore the temple they had to complete a challenge in each room in order to move on.

The first challenge was given to them by a talking stone face. Their challenge was in that room there was a specific object that the stone face had chosen, and they had 3 guesses to figure it out or they had to start over. The second challenge was given to them by a construct and they had to beat him in a game of dice. (They had to find out that he was cheating) They only had 3 games to beat him or they had to start over from room 1. The third challenge was to fight off waves of zombies. The fourth challenge was to pull all five switches (they would only work in a certain order) before the time went up or be sent back to room 1. The final challenge was to solve 3 riddles (the answers were hidden on some paintings on the wall).

This took me a couple days to make, but I'm glad the players enjoyed this. Now I have to set up more of an RP session to continue our story line.

 

[Funkmaster Rick]

Sounds like a fairly fun dungeon. I do feel it necessary to point out that puzzles will only work for so long - eventually, you'll just run out of material. =3

Some of the old 2e modules had good puzzles. Might be worth salvaging and changing around a little.

I'm in favour of letting such PCs run around and do cool stuff with their abilities before taking them away so it hits them harder, but if it worked on the first session, huzzah. ^_^

 

[udalrich]

One other idea to consider is that what is allowed for the players is also allowed for the GM. Certainly the boss enemies should be built with gestalt rules. A druid/artificer with two more levels than the party is not going to go down easily, especially if he has been supplying his minions with gear at under market value. A mind-flayer, whose racial hit dice are gestalted with cleric or anti-palidin is also going to be a threat.

 

[Funkmaster Rick]

Druid/artificer gestalt... That's just plain mean!

 

[Sorrowdusk]

I've said it many times: You can't convince power-gamers that power gaming is wrong by trying to outpower them. All you do is convince them that they didn't have *enough* power.

My own best advice is to simply start saying "NO", loud and clear. Start by saying no to D&Dwiki and homebrew rules and classes. Those are house rules for somebody else's house.

Follow up by saying no to anything from a book or source you don't have access to. As in, a book you own, not simply something someone will let you borrow at the game table.

I dont see why this is important anyway.

Shoot.

"HEY GM....Birthday come early I got you a gift......"

BAM really easy.

U mad?

 

[Nytmare]

U mad?

It would be so that the DM in question has a chance to really look at it and digest the power, not glance at it for 20 seconds before they make a decision.