This Man Is Reading Way Too Much Into X2. "It's all about homosexuality."
- Thread starter Blockader7
- Start date
WizarDru
Adventurer
S'mon makes an important point: what the creators intended across a span of a couple dozen writers, plotters and illustrators stretched across 30 years intended is somewhat difficult to quantify, at best.
Personally, I think Lee/Kirby created it with the teen angst concept in mind, developed it with incorporation of their own personal takes on the Jewish experience. Subsequent creators took it in many different directions, some heavy-handed and some not. Clearly, a reflection of the rights of different outcast groups were compared and contrasted in a variety of ways. Very overt analogies were made, and some more subtle.
I consider many of the writers who've handled the X-men in the last 10 years to be atrocious, although the writers who've taken their shot in the last 2 years are certainly a different story. The Legacy virus, for example, always struck me as rather ham-handed, and it's resolution even worse. The fact that the X-men now labor under a continuity so heavy it can barely move doesn't help. The X-men works best, IMHO, when the comic doesn't preach.
Personally, I think Lee/Kirby created it with the teen angst concept in mind, developed it with incorporation of their own personal takes on the Jewish experience. Subsequent creators took it in many different directions, some heavy-handed and some not. Clearly, a reflection of the rights of different outcast groups were compared and contrasted in a variety of ways. Very overt analogies were made, and some more subtle.
I consider many of the writers who've handled the X-men in the last 10 years to be atrocious, although the writers who've taken their shot in the last 2 years are certainly a different story. The Legacy virus, for example, always struck me as rather ham-handed, and it's resolution even worse. The fact that the X-men now labor under a continuity so heavy it can barely move doesn't help. The X-men works best, IMHO, when the comic doesn't preach.
Kahuna Burger
First Post
Mark said:
See, that never happens in USENET...
Sorry if I went adversarial immediately over a misinterpretation.I didn't even bother to read the article that got this started - the comments on it were enough to tell me that the author was trying way way too hard. Digging for freudian imagery and misrepresenting relationships doesn't amke a very good analysis. Like I said before, I think it more interesting to imagin the parrallels that would exist even with NO intent on the part of the writers... There was a ?new mutants? issue back when staring kitty pryde for some reason with a "closetted" mutant who makes mutie jokes to kitty in a desperate attempt to fit in - driving him farther from someone who might understand him. The writer of that one could have had no gay friends, no idea of how closeting effects personal dynamics for glbt folk... and the issue would still be a perfect gay parallel because the author accurately saw where that sort of outsider status can lead. Weird.
Kahuna burger
Mark
CreativeMountainGames.com
Kahuna Burger said:See, that never happens in USENET...
heh heh Well, that's EN World for ya. It's all about the love, my brother...
Kahuna Burger said:
After how I reacted, I can hardly blame you.
Kahuna Burger said:
Can't argue with that. Sometimes even a blind squirrel can find a ... Hmmm... I wonder how that would be interpreted in parallel...
Angelsboi said:
The reviewer seems to be able to ignore the parts that do not fit his theory, which is why some believe he was working from an agenda rather than simply trying to be observant. How's Hotlanta treating you, A-boi?
Mark
CreativeMountainGames.com
Re: Thread Hijak
Not bad. Raining here, too, which means no Cubs/Yankees until at least tomorrow, I think. Too bad...
I haven't been to the Pride parade here for a few years but it's always been like Mardi Gras in Boys' Town when it comes round. I'm sure this year will be no different. I should try to get out there again. Gotta support the troops, right?
So what setting are you using for your Buffyverse? Last time I looked, the road sign for Sunnydale was tumbling down into a big ol' pit...
Angelsboi said:
Not bad. Raining here, too, which means no Cubs/Yankees until at least tomorrow, I think. Too bad...
I haven't been to the Pride parade here for a few years but it's always been like Mardi Gras in Boys' Town when it comes round. I'm sure this year will be no different. I should try to get out there again. Gotta support the troops, right?
So what setting are you using for your Buffyverse? Last time I looked, the road sign for Sunnydale was tumbling down into a big ol' pit...
X-Men and the concept of "Analogies"
The interesting thing about any good narrative story is that most can usually be interpreted relative to the reader/viewer's personal experience. That's the power of narrative, its appeal as "modern mythology" as it were.
Stan Lee stated in the introduction to the Marvel Masterworks X-Men #1-10 that he originally created the X-Men because he was tired of thinking of new ways for characters to have superpowers. He felt he'd already stretched the radiation accident thin (the FF, Spidey, Daredevil, the Hulk), superscience had been overused (Ant Man, Iron Man, Captain America), alien/outsiders had been done to death (Superman, Silver Surfer, Inhumans, Namor), and even magic was getting a bit hackneyed (Dr. Strange, Thor). So he decided to just start having humans who were "born different." Problem solved, perpetual source of new characters supplied.
The evolution of humanity is a theme that has been played out repeatedly in Science Fiction since Charles Darwin wrote the Origin of Species. H.G. Wells in "The Time Machine," A.E. Van Voight in "Slan" and so on. The Time Machine had a variant human race called Morlocks, who lived underground (after which a group of mutants in Marvel's comics was named). The Slan from Slan were even characters with extraordinary powers, often telepathic, identifiably "different" but capable of concealing their differences, who were persecuted for their powers.
Now of course, the homosexual analogy can be attached to X-Men. Any genetic distinction that could be given a stigma could have this analogy attached to it. Is "Gattaca" a homosexual analogy because it represents a world where people can be discriminated against based on "inferior genetics?" Maybe it is, but that's not ALL it is.
Yes, the Legacy Virus was inspired by the AIDS virus, maybe...but it could also be interpreted as a cautionary tale on the perils of germ warfare. The plague which was intended to wipe out dangerous mutants took out some of mankind's protectors, and then started affecting humans (it mutated, appropriate in a book about mutants).
So people should feel free to draw their analogies, but to determine that your interpretation is the intent of the creators...well that's just silly. At the very least, do your research and realize that the movie is drawing on a VERY large body of literature that should be referenced. You wouldn't write an article on the parallels in a movie about King Arthur or Greek Myth without researching the source material first, and the same consideration should be given to the X-Men (or any other literary character). A little intellectual honesty is all we're asking for.
And you don't get to skate with "but the source material is only picture books." The X-Men (and related) comics probably have more text alone (accumulated over 40 years of existence) than 99.9% of the "serious literary works" out there. And if you had to describe the scenes...well we won't even go there.
The interesting thing about any good narrative story is that most can usually be interpreted relative to the reader/viewer's personal experience. That's the power of narrative, its appeal as "modern mythology" as it were.
Stan Lee stated in the introduction to the Marvel Masterworks X-Men #1-10 that he originally created the X-Men because he was tired of thinking of new ways for characters to have superpowers. He felt he'd already stretched the radiation accident thin (the FF, Spidey, Daredevil, the Hulk), superscience had been overused (Ant Man, Iron Man, Captain America), alien/outsiders had been done to death (Superman, Silver Surfer, Inhumans, Namor), and even magic was getting a bit hackneyed (Dr. Strange, Thor). So he decided to just start having humans who were "born different." Problem solved, perpetual source of new characters supplied.
The evolution of humanity is a theme that has been played out repeatedly in Science Fiction since Charles Darwin wrote the Origin of Species. H.G. Wells in "The Time Machine," A.E. Van Voight in "Slan" and so on. The Time Machine had a variant human race called Morlocks, who lived underground (after which a group of mutants in Marvel's comics was named). The Slan from Slan were even characters with extraordinary powers, often telepathic, identifiably "different" but capable of concealing their differences, who were persecuted for their powers.
Now of course, the homosexual analogy can be attached to X-Men. Any genetic distinction that could be given a stigma could have this analogy attached to it. Is "Gattaca" a homosexual analogy because it represents a world where people can be discriminated against based on "inferior genetics?" Maybe it is, but that's not ALL it is.
Yes, the Legacy Virus was inspired by the AIDS virus, maybe...but it could also be interpreted as a cautionary tale on the perils of germ warfare. The plague which was intended to wipe out dangerous mutants took out some of mankind's protectors, and then started affecting humans (it mutated, appropriate in a book about mutants).
So people should feel free to draw their analogies, but to determine that your interpretation is the intent of the creators...well that's just silly. At the very least, do your research and realize that the movie is drawing on a VERY large body of literature that should be referenced. You wouldn't write an article on the parallels in a movie about King Arthur or Greek Myth without researching the source material first, and the same consideration should be given to the X-Men (or any other literary character). A little intellectual honesty is all we're asking for.
And you don't get to skate with "but the source material is only picture books." The X-Men (and related) comics probably have more text alone (accumulated over 40 years of existence) than 99.9% of the "serious literary works" out there. And if you had to describe the scenes...well we won't even go there.
Re: Re: Thread Hijak
I'll probably skip it again this year.
Mark said:
Not bad. Raining here, too, which means no Cubs/Yankees until at least tomorrow, I think. Too bad...
I haven't been to the Pride parade here for a few years but it's always been like Mardi Gras in Boys' Town when it comes round. I'm sure this year will be no different. I should try to get out there again. Gotta support the troops, right?
I'll probably skip it again this year.
