This mentality needs to die

[Ourph]

What bothered me was Chris said it was a minor action to open the doors... so let the person try to open the frikken locked door. They would attempt to open the door, expending the minor action, and THEN I would explain that it was locked.

I believe this is exactly what happened. The player moved to the door (move action) and said he was attempting to open them (minor action), after which Chris told him the doors were "stuck" and explained that they appeared to be frozen shut. The player then went through his options for his standard action and decided, in the end, to try opening the door with a Str check, which failed. End of turn.

 

[S'mon]

I can't speak to the majority of tables, but certainly not at m table. I always look for a way to say yes. If someone said "Hey, I want to use Darkfire to try to melt the door open"... I would let them give it a try. In the case of darkfire melting the ice, I would say that the door is outlined with blue magical flames but that the ice didn't seem to melt. What bothered me was Chris said it was a minor action to open the doors... so let the person try to open the frikken locked door. They would attempt to open the door, expending the minor action, and THEN I would explain that it was locked.

I thought that was what happened - the PC moved up (Move) tried and failed to open door (Minor), spent 6 minutes deciding what to do then tried & failed to push it open (Standard).

Majoru - the main thing about "Darkfire" is that it's not Fire. Hence, no heat. So it shouldn't melt the ice. Conversely a 2e Fireball certainly should have an effect on the ice, either hit point damage or an object saving throw.

 

[Scribble]

Personally, rather then let them try, or simply say no, I'd tell them they could try if they wanted to, but as their character knows Darkfire doesn't generate any heat, they assume it probably wouldn't have any effect.

 

[nedjer]

I think that there is an expectation that a WotC employee should be a "better" DM than your average DM - regardless of edition. At least, that is the assumption I hold.

Which seems puzzling to me. They probably haven't had any training in running events and tutoring kids or adults. Would you ask them to go into a room in a college with a bunch of sixteen year olds to run a scenario on coping with a supervolcano eruption or deciding what technology to use to deliver health information in Africa? Probably not, because they wouldn't be considered trained to a suitable standard.

 

[Festivus]

I must have mis-heard what he said. Because I heard "You can use a minor action to open the door, but actually before you do that you can see that it's locked". I didn't think the player expended his minor (if I was the player, that would have been what I was thinking).

Hey, here is a thought, how about some of you who have a different playstyle, set up a similar encounter and video it, stick it on youtube as a response to that one so we can see how your table would run it?

 

[Saracenus]

Did anyone else notice that Chris was having the players use their Basic Attack when they could easily be using an power? That happened twice (once with Steel Diamond and again with the Goliath), so I don't know if it was a mistake or a conscious decision. Either way, that seems like a bigger "sin" to me than the call he made on Darkfire.

Yeah, i posted in another forum saying it was basic melee attack galore. Maybe because he expects the player to tell him when they want to use an at-will. Though I think everyone would recommend a newbie to use the greencards. It's not a norm but hey, it's the first time I see the melee basic attack being used frequently in 4e.

Ice: Slick ice patches are difficult terrain. You might also require an Acrobatics check for a character to avoid falling. See the relevant DCs under “Balance” in the Acrobatics skill in the Player’s Handbook (page 180). (DMG, pg. 66)

Difficult terrain = spaces with ice require 2 squares of movement to enter.

If the PC moved more than three spaces he was charging to attack. Basically Chris Perkins was not announcing that they were charging.

It would have been better for him to explain that they need to charge to attack and ask them to check their powers to see if one of their attacks can be used in place of a regular melee basic attack.

But this wasn't my game, so that is not what happened.

BTW, the suggested method for ice is roll acrobatics when you first enter a square with it. I think I like Perkins' way, rolling it after hitting a certain number of squares.

My Two Coppers,

 

[Mournblade94]

I don't think the video is indicative of any sort of mentality.

I have said NO to new players many times. Some of them are still playing in my game. If a player asks me if they can do something I expect them to be mature enough to not take a NO as a personal affront. If they can't handle that, I am not convinced it is my job to coddle people. (the player in the video did not need coddling, I am just stating a general sort of thing)

I like to point out what they might be able to do instead, but that depends on the situation.

 

[Umbran]

Hm. Context matters...

If that were at my table, I'd have ruled that he probably could use the power on the door ("You want to outline the door in purple light? Sure!") but would have warned the player there's no actual fire involved in the power so it would not have the desired effect, because really, the character would know that.

However, that wasn't happening at my campaign-table at home. That was part of a (one shot, with newbie players?) game with something like minor celebrities, being filmed for PR and marketing. That's a different situation.

My normal ruling might make the minor celebrity look a little dumb on camera (he hadn't bothered to read his power beyond the name?). Plus I risk making my game look a little nonsensical ("Why is it named Darkfire if there's no fire?"). So, the DM instead went with a ruling that is technically accurate (the choice to allow the power to be used on objects is in the DM's hands), and sits in a rules-detail where it isn't all that embarrassing if a new player doesn't know it.

In addition, in the filming context, when the DM knows there's a way to deal with it that's going to be bleeding obvious in 30 seconds, it makes sense to use a ruling that will keep the players from rooting around through their powers for several minutes looking for a solution, and instead point them at looking at the surroundings. While maybe not the best ruling in terms of getting players to do new things specifically with their powers, it does put emphasis that the game calls for interacting with the environment in ways the audience might not expect.

So, maybe in that context, it doesn't look all that bad...

 

[Jan van Leyden]

Hmmh, I don't understand the fuzz.

The guy asks: "Can I attack a door with Darkfire?"

So Chris' answer is correct and adequate, a meta-game answer to a meta-game question.

 

[kevtar]

However, if the idea was to put across the sense of anticipation, spontaneous fun and 'edge of the seat' gameplay that would encourage young players to try out tabletop RPGs the plan went out the window when the leather Gandalf chairs arrived.

Lol, nice.