Those evil slaad.

[Zappo]

If it helps, I think that both the formians and the slaadi are described as Evil in 3E. They consider other races as nothing more than slaves or breeding hosts. If that isn't Evil, I don't know what is. I don't care about whether they enjoy inflicting pain or not, those actions are Evil regardless. Hell, they would still be Evil even if they were performed for the most noble reasons.

Personally, I go by their 2E behaviours. Formians have Good tendencies, they don't enslave everyone and they don't seek to conquer the entire multiverse. Slaadi do what they want to do, but since they're not Evil they don't always want to hurt people; and they have other things to do besides breeding.

 

[Hawken]

If Slaadi really are Chaotic-Neutral, shouldn't PCs occasionally run across them doing something good? If Slaadi never do anything good, doesn't that make them Evil?

Just because they are listed as Neutral doesn't mean they are Evil 15 days out of the month and Good the other 15 days (in a 30 day month ). Not being Good doesn't automatically make one Evil.

Just because grizzly bears don't pull drowning people out of rivers or lead lost children back to civilization doesn't make them Evil just because they're not helping out the less fortunate. They're concerned with eating, sleeping and propagation of their species. Slaadi propagate by injecting eggs into others. That is not an Evil act, just an instinctive urge to ensure the survival of their species. Its no different than a hunter killing an animal to ensure his survival (by eating its prey). That is probably why they are viewed as Chaotic Neutral instead of Chaotic Evil. They may seem Evil, but, maybe they all just have bad attitudes or rotten outlooks on life. Anyone living the way they do wouldn't exactly be 'Mr. Happy'.

Not doing Good does not make them Evil, it simply shows that they are not Good. Think about how they get on the Prime planes. They're typically summoned and almost always by someone Evil. Which means they are forced to do Evil things, they don't just 'pop' into the Prime planes and start wreaking havoc on an urge.

 

[The Amazing Dingo]

But this only reinforces the fact that Slaadi, as portrayed, are Chaotic-Evil. They are selfish, uncaring of others (as illustrated by your belief that they really wouldn't care about any thralls,) and needlessly cruel.

I don't necessarily think "not caring" about the thralls makes them "evil". From a "good view point" it most certainly does make them evil (no argument there). Its not that they don't care for the thralls so much as they have a higher concern (namely ending the blasphemous existance of the Formorians so that their unnatural ways can end).

I think they'd go in guns blazing and while not trying to kill any thralls, they wouldn't shy away if they got into the crossfire. When the dust has settled, I do think that (as CN) they would free the thralls and let them be on their way with the barest of anything they required.

Sorry if I worded it poorly before. Darn 18 hour workdays...

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Just because they are listed as Neutral doesn't mean they are Evil 15 days out of the month and Good the other 15 days (in a 30 day month ). Not being Good doesn't automatically make one Evil.

If the "not being Good" is absolute, then yes, it does. As I mentioned above:

If you consider Neutrality to be a mixture of Good and Evil, then the complete lack of Good shifts the Slaadi into Evil. If you consider Neutrality to be the absence of Good and Evil, then the presence of Evil shifts the Slaadi into Evil.

I'd be interested in another definition of Neutral that allows the Slaadi, at present, to exist in their current incarnation and deserve their current alignment.

Just because grizzly bears don't pull drowning people out of rivers or lead lost children back to civilization doesn't make them Evil just because they're not helping out the less fortunate.

Non-intelligent creatures do not exist in a moral world. We're talking about the Slaadi, who have a listed Int of 6-14 (excepting the Death Slaad, which actually is listed as Chaotic-Evil.)

They're concerned with eating, sleeping and propagation of their species. Slaadi propagate by injecting eggs into others. That is not an Evil act, just an instinctive urge to ensure the survival of their species. Its no different than a hunter killing an animal to ensure his survival (by eating its prey).

It's absolutely different, because the Slaadi are hunting sentient creatures, and know it. Put the shoe on the other foot. If a human society existed by eating half-orcs, would you consider them evil?

Personally, I go by their 2E behaviours. Formians have Good tendencies, they don't enslave everyone and they don't seek to conquer the entire multiverse. Slaadi do what they want to do, but since they're not Evil they don't always want to hurt people; and they have other things to do besides breeding.

I could definitely see go along with this.

There's actually been examples of CG slaadi. It may be that slaadi exposed to evil in their surroundings may shift to CG to balance out the evil around them in hopes of creating a balance of CN. There was a CG slaadi in the Abyss that went around protecting people from Tanar'ri. A second example of such, everyone's favorite slaadi, Xanxost, seemed to lament this fact somewhat, finding himself becoming more CG than CN from exposure to Tanar'ri during his "research"*

I did not know this, and love it. It does make me less upset with D&D in general. I guess many DMs merely see slaadi as too good a combat foe to pass up. At least you've show me that there's some core D&D stuff that portrays them as something other than Death Slaadi of varying colors.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Good topic.
I like the Slaadi. They're fun. But I won't EVER use them as CE killers--like the Cliffhanger from WotC that does that, where they SLAUGHTER an abbey of cleric/monk types.

 

[shilsen]

At least you've show me that there's some core D&D stuff that portrays them as something other than Death Slaadi of varying colors.

Speaking of core stuff, I was reading Complete Divine just a few hours ago and noticed that apparently Olidammara's herald is a 24-HD death slaad and the allies he sends clerics casting planar ally spells include gray slaads and death slaads.

 

[Piratecat]

In my campaign the slaadi are breeding the ant-centaurs of Mechanus with halflings. Part of their chaotic nature tells them to stop, but at this point they just can't help themselves; it's hobbit formian.

 

[shilsen]

In my campaign the slaadi are breeding the ant-centaurs of Mechanus with halflings. Part of their chaotic nature tells them to stop, but at this point they just can't help themselves; it's hobbit formian.

*smites Piratecat*

 

[der_kluge]

In my campaign the slaadi are breeding the ant-centaurs of Mechanus with halflings. Part of their chaotic nature tells them to stop, but at this point they just can't help themselves; it's hobbit formian.

Death. Only death will do.

 

[Piratecat]

You're just jealous you didn't say it first.