Those evil slaad.

Trick is, how many non-intelligent lifeforms are actually -listed- as being in Limbo? There's a LOT of elemental psuedo-matter, but very little ORGANIC matter, and since you have to be somewhat intelligent to manipulate that matter...
 

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Incenjucar, my last post was addressed to Mr. Kaze, but I will address your comment now.

Incenjucar said:
Survival is neutral. Slaadi have to eat SOMETHING (and there's only so many cows wandering around Limbo), and slaadi have to use SOMETHING to breed in (Again, with the cows).
Survival is neutral. That does not make the means of survival neutral. If there are cows (or other non-intelligent life forms) on Limbo, I believe that the slaad can make use of them as cattle and hosts for implantation and that does not impact their alignment. If the slaadi choose to eat/implant eggs in intelligent life forms, that is an evil act - even if they are the only living things around. The ends ("This is necessary for my survival") does not justify the means ("I'm going to kill you for food, despite the fact that you are not threatening me") in terms of D&D alignment.

Incenjucar said:
Trick is, how many non-intelligent lifeforms are actually -listed- as being in Limbo? There's a LOT of elemental psuedo-matter, but very little ORGANIC matter, and since you have to be somewhat intelligent to manipulate that matter...
The slaad are 'somewhat intelligent'. They aren't animals. They have an Int score of at least 6. They are morally accountable for their actions. If they can figure out a way to survive that is not evil, then good for them, they get to be chaotic neutral. If they can't, then they can either choose to commit evil acts in order to survive, or they can choose to perish.

I'm not trying to argue that eating/implanting eggs in intelligent life forms doesn't make sense for the slaadi as they are used in books. It's a perfectly logical course of action. I'm only arguing that it makes them chaotic evil, not chaotic neutral.
 

In my games seeing a Slaadi does automatically mean inititive (except those pesky death guys). I've had Slaad hire the PC's to do stuff. Once a Slaad sold a "devil killing poison" to the demons and sold the antidote to the devils. I always make them the "referees" in the blood war. It really doesn't matter who is winning just as long as the game never ends. If that means detroying a orphange/pet store then so be it.

I never like C/N alignment. I don't think of it as crazy, its more of "I don't really care" attitude.
 

I don't really see slaad as evil, just more of a survival of the fittest sort of thing. I think really the problem is that module writers just make slaad aggresive because they're chaotic, which is just lazy. Personally, I see slaad as sort of thrying to constantly prove which one is the greatest. The lower slaad constantly fight, becuase they're too stupid to prove themselves any other way.

I see it more like this; red and blue slaad's aren't very smart. They have an Inteligence and Wisdom of 6; that makes them dumber than orcs, and ogres, which also have a 6 Int, have a 10 Wis. I think they're also more strongly driven by their instinct to eat and mate because of their lack of intellectual prowess; there's less conscious thought to reign instinctive impulses. Even if they do understand other creatures, they're chaotic and pretty stupid, so I see it as a VERY low attention span. You start trying to explain advanced philosophy to a red or blue slaad, he'll just get bored and hungry.

Green slaads are different. They got a 10 Int and Wis, which is the same as the average human. They also seek power through magical might, so they're not just a bunch of bullies. Green slaads are described as arrogant, not necessarily belligerent. They're not murderous, but they also don't like to share, either. A green isn't goning to go around randomly killing people, he's not going to gain knowledge and power that way. They might go around killing wizards and taking their stuff, but they might also make trades with wizards to gain power. They'll be heavy-handed about it to be sure, but not necessarily murderous.
 

rkanodia said:
Incenjucar, my last post was addressed to Mr. Kaze, but I will address your comment now.


Survival is neutral. That does not make the means of survival neutral. If there are cows (or other non-intelligent life forms) on Limbo, I believe that the slaad can make use of them as cattle and hosts for implantation and that does not impact their alignment. If the slaadi choose to eat/implant eggs in intelligent life forms, that is an evil act - even if they are the only living things around. The ends ("This is necessary for my survival") does not justify the means ("I'm going to kill you for food, despite the fact that you are not threatening me") in terms of D&D alignment.

Survival of the species tends to be beyond alignment. A slaadi who ignores viable, non-sentient food and reproductive sources in favor of sentient prey is, certainly, evil. If, however, they're basically wandering around half-starved and over-laden with eggs, it's a 'needs' thing. Consider it: If your life and/or the life of your child was determined by whether or not these strangers who have stumbled in to -your- territory survived, would you just sit there and let you and/or your children rot away and die?

The slaad are 'somewhat intelligent'. They aren't animals. They have an Int score of at least 6. They are morally accountable for their actions.

So's the terrasque.

If they can figure out a way to survive that is not evil, then good for them, they get to be chaotic neutral. If they can't, then they can either choose to commit evil acts in order to survive, or they can choose to perish.

...So.. survival of the species is evil now? It's not like the invading species are dying out.

I'm not trying to argue that eating/implanting eggs in intelligent life forms doesn't make sense for the slaadi as they are used in books. It's a perfectly logical course of action. I'm only arguing that it makes them chaotic evil, not chaotic neutral.

What you're saying is that turning someone in to a slaadi and plunging them in to Limbo is going to guarantee that they either die or get sent to the abyss?
 

Lord Pendragon said:
But this only reinforces the fact that Slaadi, as portrayed, are Chaotic-Evil. They are selfish, uncaring of others (as illustrated by your belief that they really wouldn't care about any thralls,) and needlessly cruel.

They seem to lack any Good qualities whatsoever, but have Evil qualities in abundance. How does that make them Neutral? If you consider Neutrality to be a mixture of Good and Evil, then the complete lack of Good shifts the Slaadi into Evil. If you consider Neutrality to be the absence of Good and Evil, then the presence of Evil shifts the Slaadi into Evil.

I think this is what is tripping you up- neutrality is not good and evil in similiar proportions, but instead is self-interest and survival. The slaad propagate their species by implanting eggs in them- its simply part of their reproductive biology. Trying to reproduce doesn't make them evil, but it does mean they will often act callously, with their own survival, and that of their species at the forefront. Thats basically natural selection in action- the strongest survive by weeding out the weak, either indirectly (or in this case) directly.

I see the slaad as CN because they will do whatever it takes to survive and further their species. This requires they kill other sentients, but they do not do it out of malice, but out of need. They have no tight-knit social structure, and often fight each other for dominance- very chaotic. They are not above killing, torturing, or other evil actions if it suits them, but neither would they necessarily be averse to aiding someone else if it was in their benefit.
 

Basically, there's no reason that a slaadi, if extremely certain that it isn't in danger, and that you wouldn't be more useful as a food source or a breeding material, may very well -help- you, just for the heck of it. A slaadi, given the opportunity, may very well help old ladies cross the street just to be nice. Trick is, their environment is so fricking harsh, they don't usually -get- opportunities like that.

I still think a slaadi freedom fighter for hire would rock.
 

Piratecat said:
In my campaign the slaadi are breeding the ant-centaurs of Mechanus with halflings. Part of their chaotic nature tells them to stop, but at this point they just can't help themselves; it's hobbit formian.
So, can someone explain the pun to me (as a German speaker) - maybe it`s help to remove the pain it seems to inflict to the other members... :)
 



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