Thoughts after three sessions of 4E

[maggot]

Amen!! I should post the email I sent out to my group about yesterday's game. Basically explaining where they made some mistakes in the encounter that essentially TPK'd them.

Ick, if you hadn't already sent it, I would advice you against that. I had a DM do that once, complain to the group after we got killed. Talk about rubbing salt in a wound.

 

[Gothmog]

Probably one of the biggest changes to get used to is the concept of teamwork. Monsters are mobile and can easily move to attack weakly defended party members, especially if they're intelligent....

Teamwork, teamwork, teamwork!

Here's something I've found: first level characters are still extremly squishy. We had three unconscious and dying PCs in that combat (which lasted almost 20 rounds!) and one of those died, with another rolling a natural 20 on their Death Save and was able to stabilise the last. Combats may last longer, but your PCs will always be in danger at low levels.

Teamwork is critical in 4e, and its something my players are still getting used to. No cooperation and lack of teamwork = death.

This is markedly different than in 3e, and it takes a while to get used to it. 3e tried to make it so every character had his moment in the spotlight (which is a good thing). Problem with that is that once some people get their moment in the spotlight, they don't want to give it up. So we saw a preponderance of multiclassing, buffs, magic item escalation, etc as party members tried to outdo each other. I've seen guys who were incredible roleplayers in 1e/2e and other systems get caught up in this (basically, glory hogs wanting the spotlight all for themselves) and become obsessive rules-mastery powergamers (some to the point of munchkinism). Heck, you almost had to do this if one person started it, or else you looked like a chump.

From my experience so far, 4e is more about allowing the party as a collective to shine and have the spotlight- no single member is so powerful that they can overshadow or dominate the party, but they are all key players. I don't know how many times so far in 4e a character does something to save another party member or swing the battle in the party's favor, and my players go "wow, COOL!" without the one-upsmanship or jealousy that came with 3e. Requiring teamwork/cooperation is MUCH better game design, and one of the big strengths of 4e.

And Merric, you're absolutely correct, PCs are pretty "squishy" in 4e when they are facing an equal level encounter, or if they get surrounded and flanked. The PCs in my homebrew game are 4th level now, and they still routinely have characters going down from a bad tactical moment (mostly flanking, but also a few times from being boxed-in) or from a monster ability they hadn't expected. Because the threat of death is more real now at every level of play, the combats have more of an "edge of your seat" atmosphere to them, and they are fast-paced enough to keep players engaged and excited. Again, this is excellent game design.

 

[MerricB]

The big change is that PCs don't go down in one round due to one bad roll. It takes quite a bit of time.

I also discovered how wonderful Dragonshield Kobolds are when they can engage the Wizard in melee... he just can't get away! (And Adam thought he'd never be in melee and so didn't take Thunderwave... oops!)

Cheers!

 

[The Little Raven]

I made a trade for a full set of Alea magnets 2 years ago at Gen Con.

Those will be absolute life-savers, I expect.

They're like manna from heaven. They speed combat up so much, once you get the hang of them.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

The Sunday group has been facing intelligent enemies, and the fight against Irontooth, which started very well for the PCs (the Fighter, Paladin and Warlord formed a line that stopped the kobolds from getting through to the Wizard and Warlock), started to go against them the moment they broke the line and let kobolds into flanking positions and going after the fluffier members of the group.

Teamwork, teamwork, teamwork!

Here's something I've found: first level characters are still extremly squishy. We had three unconscious and dying PCs in that combat (which lasted almost 20 rounds!) and one of those died, with another rolling a natural 20 on their Death Save and was able to stabilise the last. Combats may last longer, but your PCs will always be in danger at low levels.

Regarding mobile enemies, I am not sure this will hold true once you start to regularly face 4th level and higher monsters. Goblins and Kobolds both have abilites that let them shift. Goblins shift if you miss them in combat, and Kobolds can shift as a minor action. Most of the other classic fodder types do not seem to have this. Zombies are very, very slow. Orcs, Hobgoblins, and Gnolls do not have shifting abilities, and neither do Skeletons.

But with Bull Rush and Grab making more sense than it used it, you can still try to use minions to push or pull players out of formation.

As for combat, what I think is catching some people off guard is that in addition to beefing up 1st level PC's, they also beefed up low level monsters significantly. A 3rd edition Kobold had +1 to hit and did 1d4-1 damage with a small shortsword at +0 to hit. A 4th edition Kobold Skirmisher has 27 Hp and does 1d8 damage at +6 to hit, gaining +1 to hit for each ally adjacent to the target. Basic flanking gives that Kobold a +9!

Players are more durable, and easier to heal, but they also get hit more often and take more damage. This is a change that I am liking greatly!

END COMMUNICATION

 

[helium3]

Ick, if you hadn't already sent it, I would advice you against that. I had a DM do that once, complain to the group after we got killed. Talk about rubbing salt in a wound.

Eh. Apparently one player has already exploded in an apoplectic fit.

*shrug*

Serves me right for making the suggestion, "When you're getting turned into a pincushion by an Elven Archer, you might want to consider moving to where he doesn't have line of sight on you. Additionally, the characters with good ranged attacks might want to consider attacking him back."

 

[helium3]

I sincerely hope 20+ round combats are the exception and not the rule.

Me too. Still not sure, though.

 

[helium3]

Are you sure about that? I thought he only got to whack marked foes who shift while adjacent to him.

Yep. I'm quite sure. Even looked at the Errata, just to make sure.

I have no idea what everyone else is talking about.

 

[Obryn]

They're like manna from heaven. They speed combat up so much, once you get the hang of them.

Oh, yeah. I could largely do without in Star Wars & other games. They were lifesavers in 3e. In 4e, it looks like it will make everything amazingly smooth. I hope.

-O

 

[MerricB]

Trying to go by memory (and a bit of paper hanging off a miniature) so far.

Cheers!