Thoughts on Distance

[Primitive Screwhead]

Another factor vs safety from intelligent threats is the kings/lords reaction to incusions. Is there a small, deadly force that carries out brutal reprisal on those that attack the liege lords people? That might make an area safer despite the forces ability to be proactive.

Fear of genocode goes a long way....

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[S'mon]

For a good-sized city state, 12-20 miles command radius is reasonable, depending on terrain. Also consider agriculture; the city may need a square mile of farmland per 100 people, so 10x10 miles gives allows 10,000 people in the city; 20x20 allows a big city of40,000; 40x40 or similar to 20 mile radius allows a huge city of 160,000 like classical Athens- except that's too big to farm from the city so you need subsidiary villages and towns.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

If you want to look at it mathematically, a 10 mile radius from the city equates to a patrol area of about 315 square miles. If 10% of the city population are the garrison, that gives you 1100 personnel to guard the city and patrol the countryside. No more than half that would ever be outside the walls at any one time, and that is probably too high considering they need to have shifts and guard the city itself where most of the population is. Let's call it one-quarter or about 275 guards. In 8-man patrols that gives you 35 patrols to cover that 315 square mile area. Seems feasible. Increase the radius by 5 miles and you more than double the area that needs to be protected.

 

[El Mahdi]

...IDHMBIFOM but wilderness travel varies greatly depending on the terrain; on a road, 30 miles per day is not unreasonable for a party that's neither too large nor too encumbered.

Yup, that's about right.

If you want to break it down a little more:

A normal person over easy terrain (like a road), can walk about 1 mile in 20 minutes (faster if they are in a hurry, slower if tired, taking their time, or heavily weighted with equipment).

That works out to 3 miles in an hour, which incidentally is the same as a Medieval League (which was defined as the distance a person could walk in 1 hour!).

So, easy terrain and normal person/pace = 3 miles per hour. A 12 hour day of walking (with stops for food, rest, and "other physical needs") averages out to about 10 hours of actual walking, or 30 miles. Adjust up or down for terrain, conditions, urgency, and fatigue.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

If you want to look at it mathematically, a 10 mile radius from the city equates to a patrol area of about 315 square miles. If 10% of the city population are the garrison, that gives you 1100 personnel to guard the city and patrol the countryside. No more than half that would ever be outside the walls at any one time, and that is probably too high considering they need to have shifts and guard the city itself where most of the population is. Let's call it one-quarter or about 275 guards. In 8-man patrols that gives you 35 patrols to cover that 315 square mile area. Seems feasible. Increase the radius by 5 miles and you more than double the area that needs to be protected.

The topography of the ground will count more than raw area or perimeter. You primarly patrol the choke points into a region that should detect the incursion of major bands. Small forces or single creatures would have to be dealt with by local forces. They also represent less of a threat.

For heavy duty single creatures like a dragon the only really adequate response are suitably level adventures/heros.

 

[Hand of Evil]

10 miles - this is based on how far you can go and make it back to the city, not just on foot but also with goods in a cart. You also have a VAST area. Now, what you will have is corridors that follow roads, along these it is also about the same but 5 miles on each side of the road.

20 miles is pushing the limits, you may have a support town to the city but that is it. Support town are 20 miles or so from a city and each other.

Remember this is for a fantasy game, there are monsters.

** OLD FART ALERT **
You see, I am old enough to remember what it was like in the US before and during the early days of the interstate highways. You left the city and you may see a light on the horizion and that was it, no Wal-Mart or gas station at every exit.
** End of OLD FART ALERT **

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

In the original D&D rules, when a PC built a stronghold he was required to clear the countryside of monsters as the first requirement, with territory "...up to 20 miles distant from a stronghold may be kept clear of monsters once cleared -- the inhabitation of the stronghold being considered as sufficient to maintain the monster-free status." (The Underworld & Wilderness Adventure pg. 24)

The territory around the stronghold supports 2-8 communities of 100-400 inhabitants, each (supplying income to the Lord). I suppose this "20 mile safe radius" assumes normal patrolling by men-at-arms from the fortress.

 

[delericho]

As a general rule, how far would you say OUTSIDE of a fortified settlement (say a small walled city) would be safe?

It depends, but for a typical "points of light" setting, I would argue that a good rule of thumb is this:

1) Within the named settlement that makes up the point of light, is considered 'safe'.

2) Farms/hamlets and other small settlements within 1 day's travel from the PoL is also considered 'safe'. In order to keep its citizens fed, the PoL has to patrol these areas reasonably well. So, if you need help you don't have to travel to the PoL and back - there's probably a patrol or small garrison within an hour or two of travel.

3) Farms/hamlets and other small settlements within 2 days' travel from the PoL are a 'grey zone'. They're markedly less 'safe' than those within the 1-day boundary, but they're also markedly more 'safe' than those without. There will be far fewer patrols in this area, but the people themselves will likely be a hardier bunch, and more apt to travel to the assistance of their neighbours. This is very distinctly a frontier area.

4) Anything more than 2 days of travel from the PoL is considered the wilds.

Large cities will necessarily expand the radius of the various rings - say 1 day/2 days for a "Keep on the Borderlands", 2 days/4 days for a medium town, 4 days/8 days for a city?

 

[DrunkonDuty]

Does the duke keep garrisons around the area? A small cadre of Rangers operating as scouts and a scattering of garrisons can provide relative safety to a large area.

You mentioned trade with the elves. In fact the town is the only trade point with the elves. That trade route would be heavily patrolled.

It's a coastal city so sea patrols can extend the patrolled range along the coast. As do other lines of communication like roads or plains. Rough terrain, hills, forests, make patrols slower and make it easier for enemies to move through undetected.

What are the enemies that threaten the town? Pirates in fast sloops? Goblins on wargs slipping through the forests? Gargoyles swooping down from the craggy pinnacles that overlook the farm land? Mongol hordes galloping over the plains? Fast moving, long range threats like this can threaten a much wider area. Especially if there's good lines of communicaton. On the other hand if the main threats are slow moving, that is slower moving than the defending forces, the threatened area is smaller.

But I think the best way to decide what is the safe range is to think about what stories you want to tell. If you want a city under siege feeling then the safe range is not far past the city walls. Raiders harassing outlying farms then the safe range if further. THEN work out why the safe range is what it is.

cheers,

 

[Ahnehnois]

The D&D world does not have the same balance of power as the real world environments on which it is based. That is to say, in medieval europe, the difference in combat prowess between an armed warrior and an unarmed peasant or wild animal is (while significant) not nearly as big as the difference between an armed D&D warrior and a dragon/lich/etc.

"Safety" is thus a dramatic conceit. To explain why evil dragons don't raze every human civilization, you have to invent a reason; do they have other goals, do good dragons stop them, are they bound by an ancient pact? Flying monsters and magic easily overwhelm conventional human defenses. Even mid-level humanoid bandits with +1 swords and rings of protection have a much bigger advantage over the average commoner than they would in the real world. it's a heightened reality.

Personally, I find this variable interesting to play with. In many parts of my setting, and in many times, the lands are very unsafe (that's why there are adventurers). Sometimes, however, I invent reasons to the contrary, typically adversity between powerful entities that leaves humans in the middle. For a fun D&D game, I recommend erring on the side of danger. You can always explain where a "random encounter" came from with interesting plot.