Level Up (A5E) Thoughts on Eldritch Blast options for Warlock

WanderingMystic

Adventurer
I knew that they had invisibility but I hadn't looked so couldn't remember if it was a bonus action or a spell casting action that is nice. I also wanted to look at some of the other 1/2 cr tiny options out there that might be good or thematic options.

Since they use your spell attack modifier when they attack with frog fang items like the War Wizard wand add the + bonus to their attacks as well which is nice and it doesn't use your action so 1d4 + 9 (averages out to 8 damage per round over the course of your career. Maybe more if invisible) damage isn't bad there is also the additional poison damage ina failed save but since it doesn't change their save DC to yours and since it is poison I don't even count it.
 

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WanderingMystic

Adventurer
Mechanoskuls, and pixies are available for familiars. If you are taking things from 5e then you have gazers, death heads, abyssal chickens and a very sturdy construct hawk
.
Now I just need some tiny Mephites and slimes, maybe another undead for familiars.
Personally I would want closer to two temp HP per level and not just 1 to be worth it for an invocation, or I might just house rule things like Fiendish Vigor and Noxious Invigoration working for them that would make them more survivable.
 

Tessarael

Explorer
I was suggesting that the invocation should give multiple benefits to make your familiar more effective. Only getting +1 HP/level for the familiar is probably not sufficient to be worth spending an eldritch invocation on it.

Faerie Dragon familiar is a really good option but it is CR 1, and not something that a Warlock can get by default. I recall level 7 being required to get it, but I'm not sure if that is a 5E D&D rule somewhere or just Pathfinder's Improved Familiar feat.

And yes, in earlier editions spells with target self could also affect your familiar. So having an eldritch invocation that gives this, along with some other stuff, would be nice.
 

WanderingMystic

Adventurer
Fairdragon as an option existed back in 3rd Ed and in pathfinder I used to love them back in the day. Some mini elemental or Jen would be cool and I still can't belive they haven't made one yet. We need some good options options your psychic or madness themed ones.
 

Tessarael

Explorer
If you have a flexible DM, converting over something that you like from the Pathfinder Improve Familiar feat is probably your best bet to have a wide variety of options to select one from to convert.
 

WanderingMystic

Adventurer
It is more that I want A5E to be extremely successful. So when I see areas for improvement or spaces that leave a nitch unfulfilled I want that to be filled or at least looked at.

Until we have a great set of digital character creation tools my group won't even look at the game as a DnD replacement. Regardless I love all of the changes so I will just keep backing all of the authors supporting the system so that the game can grow.
 

arms

Explorer
At higher levels, I'd love to have an eldritch invocation that gives the familiar something like this:
  • +1 HP per Warlock level
  • They can use your saving throws.
could the extra HP also come from x*proficiency bonus or x*main statt modifier?
 

Tessarael

Explorer
could the extra HP also come from x*proficiency bonus or x*main statt modifier?
The benefit with specifying it as a proficiency bonus multiplier is that it is not tied to your Warlock level, so it is better for multi-classed characters. If we had it as say 3x proficiency bonus, then at say Warlock level 3 when you get Pact of the Chain, your familiar would get +6 HP, and at level Warlock level 17 its +18 HP. So overall, the additional HP would be similar. I think that it would work okay. Familiars like Pixie and Sprite with only 2 HP do need that extra HP early on to have any hopes of survival when hurt.
 

Tessarael

Explorer
One other interesting thing that I just realized helps with Eldritch Scythe for Pact of the Chain:
  • Pact of the Chain: "[..] Additionally, when you use Eldritch Scythe, you can choose to deliver the attack through your familiar as though you had cast a spell with a range of Touch."
  • Frog Fangs invocation: "Your familiar can take the Attack action. Attacks made by or delivered through your familiar use your spell attack bonus and deal additional force damage equal to your proficiency bonus."
  • Agonizing Blast invocation: "When you use your Eldritch Blast, you deal extra damage equal to your spellcasting ability modifier."
So if I'm reading this correctly, taking Pact of the Chain, Frog Fangs, and Agonizing Blast invocations, I can use Eldritch Scythe through my familiar and get bonus damage of spellcasting ability modifier + proficiency bonus.

So Pact of the Chain makes Eldritch Scythe more effective when delivered through your familiar, if you take Frog Fangs. At 5th level with proficiency bonus +4 and spellcasting ability modifier +3, you're dealing two attacks at +6 to hit, and damage of 2x (d10 + 4 ability modifier + 3 proficiency bonus + d6 Hex) x 0.6 chance-to-hit = 19.2 average damage and 9.6 damage to a secondary target within 5' of the familiar, or without Hex the average is 15.0 and 7.5 damage to a secondary target within 5' of the familiar. That's quite good.

It is better compared to Pact of the Blade and Eldritch Scythe. At 5th level with proficiency bonus +4 and spellcasting ability modifier +3 and +1 weapon, you're dealing two attacks at +7 to hit, and damage of 2x (d10 + 4 ability modifier + 1 magic item + d6 Hex) x 0.65 chance-to-hit = 18.2 average damage and 9.1 damage to a secondary target within 5' of you, or without Hex the average is 13.6 and 6.8 damage to a secondary target within 5' of you.

Against a single target, it is still beaten by the +1 two-handed pact weapon. Along the line of WanderingMystic's calculation, the two-handed maul or greatsword attacks at +7 to hit and does 2x (2d6 + 4 ability modifier +4 Thirsting Blade + 1 magic item + d6 Hex) x 0.65 = 25.4 average damage, or 20.8 average if you exclude Hex.

Makes me think that Eldritch Scythe is worth taking along with Pact of the Chain, when you get a chance. Now you just want a familiar that has 10' reach. :)
 

WanderingMystic

Adventurer
@Tessarael so Frog fangs allows your familiar to take the attack action. The ability to use eldritch Scythe is compleat separate as that you you taking an action but it comes from your familiar. So your Eldritch Scythe does not gain the extra rage from frog fang but your familiar still get to make an attack action on it's turn and attack with it's claws. This I a great way to keep up your damage without going pact of the blade but your familiar is squishy so it will probably die sooner rather than later if you focus fire all of the damage from them. Remember that your imo, quasite and I think pseudo dragon can turn invisible as a bonus action to help their survivability.
 

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