Thoughts on how to run L1 characters with L6/L7 characters?

[Toledo]

In my last DM session last week, the team's worst real life player (playing a barbarian) attacked a Salt Demon (Tome of Beasts, immune to non-magic weapons) with a non-magical weapon (sigh) instead of with the Maul of Pain (2D6, +1 magical weapon, can opt to do an additional 4D6 damage to yourself and opponent) which I had basically created specifically for the barbarian. Due to this the party cleric got toasted by the Salt Demon and his goons. Salt Demons have sixth level spell Harm...which is what effectively took out the cleric.

Then the sorcerer threw a multi-round damage spell too close and took out the bard, and then forgot to stop it (concentration). Then the bard died to multiple auto fail death saving throws.

We play no low level resurrection or raise dead spells - at high levels you can risk it, but there is a strong chance your soul will not come back with you and something else will take your place. So effectively, once a player is dead, they are dead, since no one in-world risks it.

Following that, another player playing a sellsword barbarian thought his character would want nothing to do with the sorcerer and bard, and left.

So the worst two players still have their L6 barbarian and L7 sorcerer in the midst of a campaign. The three smartest players (and best roleplayers) were all down for the count. They're going to be starting new characters.

I've joined this group about 1.5 years ago, and they have a long standing policy of starting with L1 characters. So this Friday, I'm running my campaign with two not-so great players with their L6 and L7 characters, and three L1's (the good players).

How have you all run something like that before? Run it as a low level adventure, and just let the higher levels dominate for a bit? Once the L1's get up to L4 or so, it won't be so bad. Of course any monster tough enough for the L6 and L7 will crush the L1's.

I want it to be fun for both groups. Perhaps more puzzle type adventuring? Make some XP CR3-ish monsters in which the sorcerer and barbarian can shine a bit, and get some XP quicker for the new team? In the campaign, it's at a logical point where the "big" picture can go to the back burner for a bit.

I'm expecting to level up the L1's by a level a week hopefully in the next couple of adventuring sessions, then they won't be as squishy. By the time they're L5, the older two characters will likely be L7 and L8, so that will be workable.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

Personally, I'd modify the "starting with level 1" rule to be "starting with level 1 in the tier".

The difference in levels is unplayable in combat. The level 1 characters just can't be in melee with level 7 foes as (1) they would die in one hit and (2) their damage takes too long to down the foe.

The difference in level is not quite so bad in the other two pillars of the game but is still noticeable. Level 7 characters have many more options when meeting social and exploration challenges.

 

[iserith]

Yes, I've run games with a level spread of up to 7 levels, including 1st-level PCs with 8th-level PCs tackling a dangerous dungeon environment together. If the party is facing combat challenges appropriate to the highest level characters in the party, the 1st-level characters will level up very fast. Let's say they fight two CR 6 creatures, a Hard encounter for a 7th-level party. The three 1st-level PCs are 3rd level after that battle and their prospects for survival go up quite a bit. They should get to 5th level pretty quickly as well.

If you want to take it easy on them, just make sure those monsters have fairly low AC and don't have the ability to kill a 1st-level PC in one shot due to massive damage. The tactic on the player side would be to send the higher-level characters up to take the heat, then get in a few shots with ranged weapons or spells. Or maybe steal a kill in melee if they want to chance it (perhaps by spending Inspiration to have a better chance at hitting). After that fight, they'll level up and it's smooth sailing.

As an aside, there are no actual rules on requiring a rest or the like to level up unless you've implemented some house rules requiring it. If you didn't, this should be no trouble at all.

 

[CrimsonCarcharodon]

I wouldn't.

But if my group really, truly insisted on it, here's how I'd come at the problem. In combat, I'd use boss monsters with minions. Low level characters could hit the equally-low level minions, while the two high level characters can go after the tougher leaders. I'd also be handing out XP like candy, or preferably, leveling the lower level characters rapidly. Skip over 2nd level entirely, jump right from 1st to 3rd. 4th would come rapidly after that, like one good fight or a couple social encounters. In social and exploration encounters, I'd have a mix of stuff. Low level guy is proficient with Survival? Cool, that DC is fairly low, and I'd mention that task X that uses Survival would be a good task for someone like low level guy.

Provide plenty of opportunity for rests, maybe more frequently than you would with a party of equal level, so the low level characters don't blow through their resources as quickly, or get them back in order to somewhat keep up with the 7th level characters.

I'd maybe give the level 1s their hit points for the first three levels immediately. Then they'd just keep that total until they hit 4th level, at which point they'd gain HP normally. That gives them a little more staying power in case they get into a combat that would insta-kill standard level 1s.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

The idea behind starting at level 1 is that the new characters you bring in can team up with the level 3-4 secondary characters of the other players, until the level 1 characters reach level 3-4 and those secondary characters reach 5-6. I'm guessing that you didn't take the precaution of establishing those secondary characters, though.

In that case, I would recommend asking everyone to create level 1 characters, so you can run some low-level adventures until those characters are capable of joining back up with the remaining original characters.

 

[S'mon]

Bosses + weak minions fights and in-session levelling seems like the way to go.

 

[Tallifer]

In my last DM session last week, the team's worst real life player (playing a barbarian) attacked a Salt Demon (Tome of Beasts, immune to non-magic weapons) with a non-magical weapon (sigh)

Then the sorcerer threw a multi-round damage spell too close and took out the bard, and then forgot to stop it (concentration).

Sounds kind of "gotcha!" to me. Couldn't someone remind the barbarian of the magical weapon? Perhaps the player was feeling overwhelmed by options?

Likewise with the concentration.

But perhaps your players enjoy being tripped up by details.

 

[aco175]

25 goblins will make a tough fight for all of them. The first level PCs get one each, or two if the first falls. Maybe they take on 5-6 of them allowing the higher level PCs to take on the other 19-20 goblins. Two PCs and 20 goblins is tough. The sorcerer might take out a group of them initially leaving 15 or so. The barbarian can take out 2 per round if he hits. The whole encounter takes 5-6 rounds and the 1st level PCs get a good fight and the high level PCs get to wipe the floor and feel powerful.

 

[AkaKageWarrior]

If the not-so-good players survived, and the others were killed mostly because of stupid behaviour, how shall the L1 guys survive their deadly L6/L7 comrades?
Honestly, there seems to be more danger from the co-players than from the DM.

As a DM, make it really bad for the high level fools. Let the monsters find out that they are the group's "bosses" and give them hell, go light on the low level guys - but not too obvious.
Or just make it deadly boring for the high level guys.

Another idea:
Somehow give them the assignment, that the low-level guys must survive by any means, let them be protegées of a king or whatsoever, or let them be cursed. But do NOT let the low-level guys know that, and the hi-guys must also keep it to themselves. That might lead to some funny nanny action, and maybe teaches them some sense of responsibility for their co-players.

And then award XP really slooooow, one session = one level for the low-level guys, so that it really becomes a grind for the high level guys.

 

[Li Shenron]

The real problem is HP difference, everything else is secondary.

Monsters and traps that deal a large amount of damage because they are designed for higher-level PCs will be very risky for lower-level PCs, because they might be capable of reducing them to minus their maximum HP meaning instant death in one turn.

I'd let the new PC start at 1st level, but also make sure that:

- during combat, the players understand that lower-level PCs should stay away from melee and have cover available nearby, while higher-level PCs must take the responsibility of protecting them
- as a DM, if the story allows I'd try to direct the PCs towards non-combat challenges but still grant XP for those, or at least tone down some combat
- as a DM, I'll tweak the monsters behaviour so that they focus on something else than damage (e.g. capturing instead of killing) or find a reason why they would focus their attacks on the strongest PCs

The level difference will decrease in time, and most importantly the HP will go up eventually.