D&D 5E Thoughts on this article about Black Culture & the D&D team dropping the ball?

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I think that DnD is about having fun and relaxing. It is NOT about politics and being PC. If the author doe not like the content being created then the author should get off their butt and create some content.

Put your money where your mouth is and write a sourcebook based off just as one example the Empire of Mali that existed from the 12 to 16th century and possessed more wealth than all of Europe during that time.

Create a source book for the Numidians, the great horsemen allies of the Carthage of the ancient world. Oh wait the Numdians were Berbers, so they are probably not stereotypical enough for the writer.

Oh and by the way Mulhorand and its neighboring kingdoms are based on Egypt. Not that it matters. I am sure the author did not mean Africa, he meant sub-Sahara Africa, he meant Black.

But it does not matter, this is an article with an agenda and reality does not belong in such articles.
 

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gyor

Legend
Black American gamer here* who never liked the abbreviation PoC**, and this is kind of where I am. I appreciate the effort to be inclusive, and progress has been made. There's a LOT less whitewashing & stereotyping in the hobby than there was in the 70's, but the journey isn't over.



* please don't abbreviate that as BAG, that brings up the Brown Bag test.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_Paper_Bag_Test

** IT'S MADE OF PEOPLE!!!
View attachment 90028

Honestly I think the term black is perfectly, it's also less American centric as these conversations tend to be.

Interesting note, in Canada the preferred term for black Canadians is Black Canadians, not African Americans or African Canadians, as a lot of Black Canadians are from Caribbean cultures like Jamica, Haiti, and so on.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
"Black" is very utilitarian.

An American reporter once asked a British PoC athlete something to the effect of "how many African-Americans live in England?", and he responded, "None." The reporter's stammering was a thing of beauty.
 

Staccat0

First Post
5e has done a pretty good job at representing a wide range of ethnicities as being able to be anything while also honoring their cultural roots IMO. Honestly it’s made the system feel a lot richer and more creative for it.

I doubt it’s been perfect (I haven’t played most of the APs) but the effort being made has been creatively inspiring for my group. Heck, when I opened the PHB I saw an AWESOME looking black character that I’ve never seen at my table before.

I think that DnD is about having fun and relaxing. It is NOT about politics and being PC. If the author doe not like the content being created then the author should get off their butt and create some content.

Put your money where your mouth is and write a sourcebook based off just as one example the Empire of Mali that existed from the 12 to 16th century and possessed more wealth than all of Europe during that time.

Create a source book for the Numidians, the great horsemen allies of the Carthage of the ancient world. Oh wait the Numdians were Berbers, so they are probably not stereotypical enough for the writer.

Oh and by the way Mulhorand and its neighboring kingdoms are based on Egypt. Not that it matters. I am sure the author did not mean Africa, he meant sub-Sahara Africa, he meant Black.

But it does not matter, this is an article with an agenda and reality does not belong in such articles.

I think that from a critical standpoint, if you consider games a type of art (which I do personally) than you have to accept that some people will want to talk about what that art says without getting defensive.

If you don’t consider games an art form then I don’t really see a reason to care if other people do and want to discuss them as such.

I think people often misread stuff like this as a condemnation of the people who made/enjoy the work.
 
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5e has done a pretty good job at representing a wide range of ethnicities as being able to be anything while also honoring their cultural roots IMO. Honestly it’s made the system feel a lot richer and more creative for it.

I doubt it’s been perfect (I haven’t played most of the APs) but the effort being made has been creatively inspiring for my group. Heck, when I opened the PHB I saw an AWESOME looking black character that I’ve never seen at my table before.



I think that from a critical standpoint, if you consider it games a type of art (which I do personally) than you have to accept that some people will want to talk about what that art says without getting defensive.

If you don’t consider games an art form then, I don’t really see a reason to care if other people do and want to discuss them as such.

I think people often misread stuff like this as a condemnation of the people who made/enjoy the work.
I was not being defensive. I was pointing out the flaw in his argument and telling him to put up or shut up.

Sent from my SM-T820 using EN World mobile app
 

Satyrn

First Post
I always suspected the Asgardians were actually Canadians from the future...
New Headcanon!

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Staccat0

First Post
I was not being defensive. I was pointing out the flaw in his argument and telling him to put up or shut up.

Sent from my SM-T820 using EN World mobile app

I’m not being passive aggressive so forgive me if it seems like I am, but it’s hard to read that as literally anything but defensive and conversation squashing.

Like, even if the person who wrote the article did make a 200 page AP for some reason, it wouldn’t change the content in ToA.

I do sound for film and videogames. My opinions on those mediums aren’t more “important” than yours. You don’t have to be able to make a better movie than a movie you have thoughts on, anymore than you have to be able to breed a panda to know you don’t like the taste of their delicious panda meat.
 
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Alexemplar

First Post
I think that DnD is about having fun and relaxing. It is NOT about politics and being PC.

I wish we lived in a world where wanting a region full of various cultures and rich mythology to have some of that variety and mythology represented in a fantasy game that makes a habit of tapping various cultures and mythologies for ideas wouldn't have to be a political or PC topic, but here we are.


If the author doe not like the content being created then the author should get off their butt and create some content.

Put your money where your mouth is and write a sourcebook based off just as one example the Empire of Mali that existed from the 12 to 16th century and possessed more wealth than all of Europe during that time.

First off, that's ridiculous logic. "If you've never had published work in the TTRPG field, you have no room to ever say anything about what the most popular TTRPG in the world does," is not a viable defense from criticism. Also, We don't know what the writer homebrews in their own D&D games. Even if they had come up with a bunch of awesome material, with the way the TTRP market works it's unlikely they could ever get published or see much circulation- mostly by dint of not being D&D.

Create a source book for the Numidians, the great horsemen allies of the Carthage of the ancient world. Oh wait the Numdians were Berbers, so they are probably not stereotypical enough for the writer.

Oh and by the way Mulhorand and its neighboring kingdoms are based on Egypt. Not that it matters. I am sure the author did not mean Africa, he meant sub-Sahara Africa, he meant Black.

Yes they mean sub-Saharan Africa. That's because Forgotten Realms hasn't really "dropped the ball" in depicting Mulhurond, Unther, Thay, Anuroch, and their surrounding North African/Near Eastern analogues as varied and unique nations, while singular Chult is supposed to represent all of sub-Saharan Africa. Forgotten Realms analogues for Numidians and Egyptians get plenty of coverage in Forgotten Realms and don't have to worry about all being lumped together into a singular ethnic group with a singular history, singular language, living in a singular environment that plays up how scary and foreign it all is.

Also, the idea that North Africa =/= Africa wasn't invented by the writer. It's part of a long running practice of trying to dissociate the civilizations north of the Sahara from those further south, where all the darker skinned people lived. Consequently, it leads to the idea that anything interesting of note that happened in Africa happened north of the Sahara and that anything that happened south was either not very interesting, or the work of outsiders.

Ever notice how the various civilizations analogous to north African ones in Forgotten Realms are on the far northern and eastern edges of the map while the part of the world analogous to central/east/west/south African ones are in one country on the far south west? The thinking mentioned above is so taken for granted that most people don't think of Egypt or other places in North Africa as even being on the same continent as the rest of Africa.


But it does not matter, this is an article with an agenda and reality does not belong in such articles.

The agenda here is to call attention to how sub-Subsaharan, aka "black" Africa gets portrayed in D&D. It seems pretty open about that.
 

Lylandra

Adventurer
5e has done a pretty good job at representing a wide range of ethnicities as being able to be anything while also honoring their cultural roots IMO. Honestly it’s made the system feel a lot richer and more creative for it.

I doubt it’s been perfect (I haven’t played most of the APs) but the effort being made has been creatively inspiring for my group. Heck, when I opened the PHB I saw an AWESOME looking black character that I’ve never seen at my table before.

And it has inspired other artists to do some awesome non-white character artworks as well, I guess.

Now honestly, I like the idea of having a prominent AP or a setting supplement in a non-traditional region. We humans are lazy people and we tend to create what we know. If the setting provides any reason to challenge that lazyness by suggesting that the PCs could (or should) stem from that region, then great. I usually played white-to-southern european female characters (humans, elves, half-elves) with the one odd half dragon or half orc inbetween. And I'm a white, european woman. The last campaign we started changed that. Every possible PC that would be on my "maybe play this" list would have been either monstrous, black, indian or hispanic by setting. And I really really liked it.
 

Honestly I think the term black is perfectly, it's also less American centric as these conversations tend to be.

Interesting note, in Canada the preferred term for black Canadians is Black Canadians, not African Americans or African Canadians, as a lot of Black Canadians are from Caribbean cultures like Jamica, Haiti, and so on.
"Person of color" is broader than "black", though. It's really "non-white". I don't like it either, and feel uncomfortable using it because it evokes certain other terms, but that's how I understand it.
 

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