Thoughts on wands being overpowered in 5E

[Anakzar]

I kind of liked it when they started with a set number and to recharge them the wizard had to find regents and spend coin and time to recharge then(might have been house rules though for all I know.) Wizards might end up hording the charges but that's on them

 

[Jonathon Robinson]

If you look at the Magic Items by rarity tables in Xanathar’s Guide to Everything, a wand of fireball is listed as a Rare Major item and suggests that a party should have 1 item of that power between levels 5-10. Alternatives on that table are Wings of a flying, Mantle of Spell Resistance, Sunblade +2, Ring of Free Action and Daern’s Instant Fortress. These are all powerful items that can totally change a character.

They definitely aren’t designed to be on par with 3e/pathfinder wands.

This is a really good way of looking at it. I still think there's a huge disparity between the power of the magic items on that table - just look at the wand versus the necklace - but I think you're the first to actually compare the wand to other items of the same rarity. It is interesting to note the difference between minor and major items and that "minor" doesn't necessarily mean consumable.

Looking at that table, I can say that our group had 13 items from it so our DM must have been giving away magic items like candy. The wand of fireballs beats any of the other 12 items we had by a huge margin with the exception of wand of lightning coming in a close second.

If I start a magic economy I will be careful with the pricing of wands next to, say, a +2 sword or a +1 leather armor.

 

[Slit518]

Wand based Halfling character with the Lucky feat. Uses wands with Reckless abandon, re-rolls 1's, if you get a 2nd 1, use a Luck point. A 1 in 8,000 chance of losing a wand after all charges are used up. Enjoy!

 

[Jonathon Robinson]

What I am saying is it IS intended.

It isn't like it is a subtle thing, right? Starting a dungeon you're adding 6 or more fireballs to the arsenal. When a PC only has a few 3rd level spells, that is an obviously big thing.

And there are articles from the time of release of the edition talking about how fireball and lightning bolts are INTENTIONALLY amongst the strongest 3rd level spells.

They knew EXACTLY what they were doing.

They knew that if you get your hands on a wand of fireballs below level 9, it is (likely) going to be a big thing. You jump to the word 'problem' to describe what you see. What you see is a spellcaster throwing fireballs at enemies over and over in a rain of destruction. You see them rising to a starring role in combat damage at levels 5 to 8 as their fireballs are outclassing the damage contributions of the weapon wielders.

This is not a problem. This is a heroic part of the groups story. This is that character's time to shine. 10 years from now the player will fondly remember how he blades through the Hidden Shrine with his Wand of Fireballs and leveled the enemy right and left.

What about the other players? They're marginalized if one PC is shining!

Darn tooting.

Perfect balance between all PCs is BORING. That was the main criticism of 4E, right? That everything was so balanced that it all melted together and nothing felt distinct? 5E allows PCs to have a time to shine. The ranger with the Wand of Fireballs may be shining at levels 5 to 8, but the Warlock with the Staff of Power is going to outclass them at higher levels. Some PCs may have more times to shine, but I have yet to play in a 5E game where there was a long lived PC that really felt like they never did anything useful/fun.

As I understand it: You do not like how the feature works. You don't wand the wand wielder to be stronger than other PCs at levels 5 to 8. You want more parity between the PCs. (If not exactly how you feel, that seems to be in the ballpark). Fine.

However, that is not a failing of the item or system - that is a preference that works against the design of the system. They intended to have PCs (potentially) find these items early on (they put them on the tables they designed) - and they knew how powerful these items are (it is obvious) - and you can have a wonderful experience running the game exactly as designed with a wand of fireballs in the hands of a ranger, warlock, eldritch knight or eladrin.

D&D is an RPG. A role playing game. Characters play a role in a story. Finding a powerful and iconic item is a keystone of many great stories. You can choose to have a Wand of Fireballs in the hands of a 5th level party be a great story opportunity. Or, you can elect to diminish what makes it such an outstanding thing and try to balance the story so that it has less of an impact and everything is more balanced and neutral.

This is actually quite helpful. I asked "Has anyone else experienced problems with these wands feeling overpowered" and you seem to be answering, yes they are overpowered but no, this isn't a problem. I guess "problem" varies group by group. Sadly my experience with the wand of fireballs wasn't a wonderful experience; I felt like I couldn't play my character the way I wanted to play because of the overwhelmingly obvious choice in my possession (hmm, should I try to charm the guard and trick them into letting us in so we can ambush them, 50/50 odds, hmm, or should I blast everyone to pieces with the wand 100% guarantee, ...) If I wanted to be an evocation wizard I would have chosen that path. For some it's what they want, for others it's table pressure to use the overwhelmingly powerful weapon at your disposal, over and over again lest the charges be wasted. In any case it will be situational and experience will vary player to player, table to table.

I think you answered the first part of my question better than anyone else: it is intentionally overpowered. I didn't know that fireball and lightning bolt were intentionally overpowered. They definitely do look powerful. Our group keeps thinking 6d6 because we think that's powerful and are surprised to find it is 8d6! Same damage as 6th level circle of death! And I've rarely needed more than a 20 foot sphere. I will definitely keep this under advisement if I create a magic item economy based on rarity: it definitely wouldn't make sense to put the wand next to another rare item with the same price tag.

 

[5ekyu]

That's been the stated intent, all along, hasn't it? 5e nominally assumes no magic items, placing a magic item makes the character who gets it 'just better.'

That's an obvious tool for the DM to use to rehabilitate under-performing PC builds. If you use that tool to supercharge a PC that's already fine or even already a bit too good. Well, oops.

I thought so and while i go for more use of them including one at or above tier per character, some apoarently feel its intent was 6-8 items redefining the character by items every few levels.

 

[5ekyu]

As noted, this is a pretty common goal from prior editions - but consider how few options there really are in 5E in character design. The core elements of a lot of fighters, paladins, etc... are very similar. I have seen multiple paladins in 5E that followed the same path:

1.) Human Variant - Polearm Feat
2.) Great Weapon Fighter
3.) Oath of Vengeance
4.) Feat - Great Weapon Master

They had different backgrounds. All started with a 16 strength. All started with a 14 to 16 charisma. Cookie cutter with a few differences in skills.

They had somewhat different personalities, but not all that different. They really felt very similar until... they found IT. That item that changed who they were. The flying paladin (boots) was different than the giant paladin (homebrew item that made you large when you crit) was different than the flaming paladin (homebrew flaming halberd).

Odin asked Thor if he was the God of Hammers to say he didn't need Mjolnir to be the God of Thunder... but go watch Infinity War.

What makes King Arthur... King Arthur. Where does his story really begin, and how does it end?

What makes Drizz't ... Drizz't. How much of what makes him distinct are those two weapons? It isn't insignificant.

Their tales are more than an item or two - but the items are a sizable part of their story.

However, we're repeating ourselves now. No point in continuing to do that...

We will simply have to disagree on how much character choices matter in defining a character and telling their story.

 

[Jonathon Robinson]

I kind of liked it when they started with a set number and to recharge them the wizard had to find regents and spend coin and time to recharge then(might have been house rules though for all I know.) Wizards might end up hording the charges but that's on them

I really like this idea. By adding an economy to those charges it gives a more careful consideration of usage. Also the PCs need to spend money on something.

I could see it adding a more theatrical element to gameplay as well: the wizard needs to tend to his magic items, infusing them with more magic every day.