D&D 4E [Thread from 2005] Ridiculing People Who Want to Talk About 4E - Okay on ENWorld?

[Dinkeldog]

Id like to draw a little extra attention to this point.

I dont have a problem with people talking about what they wish was in 4E or wondering when its going to appear.

But in every one of the 4E threads I have read, several posters talk about how its on the way any second now, usually coupled with a doomsday scenario about how this is being done because 3E is failing, D&D is failing in Hasbro's eyes, D&D is about to be sold, etc etc ad nauseum.

Then a WOTC employee like Mike Mearls will pop and say its not happening, that D&D is doing fine financially etc and posters will attack him as a mindless corporate zomboid spin-meister.

*THAT* is one of the main things I have seen "ridiculed", and since the mods don't seem very interested in WOTC employees being attacked when they post on the boards, I think it SHOULD be ridiculed.

Please see Post #10 in this thread.

I think it's obvious that we are interested in anyone being attacked, but unless a post is reported, we don't know. That's what the "report post" thing is for.

More to the point, if any of the WOTC employees really feel we're not supporting them on this topic, please report a post and we'll do the best we can.

Or any thread about 4E or WOTC's financial health that degenerates into attacks on WOTC employees helpful enough to post actual information closed immediately.

Chuck

We don't have many tools available as moderators. We can:

1) post to remind people to keep things civil
2) post our own thoughts, using the "bully pulpit" such as it is
3) close a thread
4) delete a post or edit a post

Four is our most extreme option, as it abridges someone else's thoughts, potentially leading to misrepresentation of an individual. As such, we try not to do that as much as possible. It's intrusive in a way that is unjustifiable in all but the most extreme cases.

Three you just said is bad.

Two we just can't do. There is no way that every iteration of a thread topic can be read by one of us and then commented on. Just like Half-orcs getting the shaft, eventually we believe we have discussed the information enough ourselves, but others haven't yet. We don't want to forbid discussion, simply because someone came along recently and hasn't discussed out a topic that we're no longer personally involved in.

So One is our best recourse. But it depends on threads being reported. Like I said above, if it doesn't get reported, we can only assume that people aren't being offended--and that has to go for WotC employees, as well--and to some extent that has to trump rules violations. We don't have any special tool that lets us know when they've posted; they can post to any thread that strikes their fancy, and likely often post without anyone attacking them. On a board of this size, with the small cadre of moderators that helps Morrus ensure that we're roughly all at the same place on moderatorship issues, with the international nature--the sun never sets on ENWorld, to steal a phrase--there is no other way we can operate.

Note that that does not invalidate the rules. If we come across a rule violation on our own, we step in, just as if the thread were reported. But there is no way that we can hope to catch them all on our own.

 

[mearls]

More to the point, if any of the WOTC employees really feel we're not supporting them on this topic, please report a post and we'll do the best we can.

I have never felt that EN World users have been abusive towards me. I expect that an EN World will have some measure of skepticism when it comes to things I say. I think that's healthy.

Almost all - actually, strike that almost - of the consternation I feel on the boards comes from industry "professionals".

The rivalries and bickering in the gaming industry are interesting, in that they provide an excellent model of what happens when passive collides with aggressive. There's a pattern to the bickering that follows a very standardized model that a friend of mine once pointed out to me. I think of it as attacking with plausible deniability. The goal is to insult someone without turning the "crowd" of thread readers against you.

EN World is an interesting environment, in that "pros" don't want to look bad here, but they also want to build up prestige and push their agendas. Honestly, it's sometimes funny watching the acrobatics people go through to attack someone without attacking them.

Anyway, I'll keep in mind that report post function if anything gets out of hand. I definitely appreciate the concern.

 

[the Jester]

I have never felt that EN World users have been abusive towards me. I expect that an EN World will have some measure of skepticism when it comes to things I say. I think that's healthy.

I'm really glad to hear mearls say this. I like to think that we are, on the whole, a well-behaved community that appreciates the people who made/make it happen ("it" being the success of the game in general).

More on topic- I think we should also add a 5e tag.

 

[diaglo]

More on topic- I think we should also add a 5e tag.

seconded.

4ed (ADnD) already exists. heck, 4.25ed already does too if you believe their advertisement comic...

it is called Hackmaster. just open up your GMG.

 

[GVDammerung]

I do not post much to 4E or any other threads, hence my post count. I do, however, enjoy reading the threads. When 4E threads are not being derailed by those to whom the very notion of 4E is abhorrent, I find 4E threads among the most interesting to read. Why? Curiousity/speculation is interesting. I also find the discussions interesting in what they say or infer about how people view 3X.

The "problem" as I see it is that some people who do not like the idea of 4e feel a need to shout anyone mentioning 4e down, as if they are afraid that if 4e talk is allowed to proceed it will lead to 4e, the idea of which they dislike. This "shouting down" I find more than a little irritating as it seeks to foreclose discussion and to do so out of nothing more than a superstitious fear that speaking the "name" of 4e will summon it. And even if that were so, it would not excuse "shouting down" or ridiculing those not similarly minded.

There is a sharp difference between disagreeing on the basis of some opinion or fact and simply ridiculing others or posting "not again!" These latter sorts of comments add nothing and betray the poster as having no desire for a discussion, just the absence of a discussion. The purpose of a message board, I believe, is to foster discussions, and not just ones that people like or find meritorious or that are based solely on "facts."

Until posting in this forum, which generated a response by moderators, I was unaware of my ability to report a post quickly and quietly from the screen. My error. Which I can now avoid repeating.

 

[reveal]

Point of order: Since the initial "flood" of 4E posts on 9/13 and 9/14, there has been exactly one new thread started on the subject and it was a joke thread. Much ado about nothing.

 

[William Ronald]

I think that we should treat each other with respect, despite our disagreements. I work off of the principle that the people who post here are generally being honest about what they know and what they believe. I think that this should be seen as common courtesy.

Perhaps it is best to just declare some 4E threads to be 4E Humor. It is one thing to say "I do not see any evidence that points to a relase of a new edition in the near future" as opposed to "Not again!" Humor, of course, is allowable -- but can be a bit disruptive on a serious thread. (Mind you, I think some humor on a serious thread is fine, but it seems that there is some concern about it.)

 

[Umbran]

Point of order: Since the initial "flood" of 4E posts on 9/13 and 9/14, there has been exactly one new thread started on the subject and it was a joke thread. Much ado about nothing.

Ah, but you can't tell if it was much ado about nothing, or nothing due to much ado. It is quite possible that folks decided to desist because there was such a big stink.

 

[reveal]

Ah, but you can't tell if it was much ado about nothing, or nothing due to much ado. It is quite possible that folks decided to desist because there was such a big stink.

I doubt most people who start 4E threads read the Meta threads. I say this because they don't seem to read many of the other 4E threads either or else they wouldn't keep starting them every week.

 

[Quasqueton]

I was searching for something else but found this thread. Funny. Two years later, and 4E is still talked about, but still has not been so much as hinted at by WotC.

I would do a search for 4E to see how far back the rumor/worry started, but 4E isn't long enough as a search term.

Quasqueton