thread on WotC D&D pricing strategies
Lord Pendragon
First Post
Re: There Is No Engine But D20, And Dancey Is Its Prophet
Yeah. I was waiting for it, but didn't really expect Ryan's respose to be as beautifully sharp as it was. From what I've seen of him, he has a "nice guy" 'net persona. But that guy was really asking for it...
On the subject at hand, it's nice to know that WoTC made money of this thing we call 3e. They certainly deserve it, because I'm certainly having a lot of fun!
Corinth said:
Yeah. I was waiting for it, but didn't really expect Ryan's respose to be as beautifully sharp as it was. From what I've seen of him, he has a "nice guy" 'net persona. But that guy was really asking for it...
On the subject at hand, it's nice to know that WoTC made money of this thing we call 3e. They certainly deserve it, because I'm certainly having a lot of fun!
Roland Delacroix
First Post
Ryan Dancey wrote:
"ii. Additional uses of "energy" (turning, rebuking, commanding undead energy) and material to integrate with the Deities & Demigods rules systems to explain Holy Power."
Deities and Demigods rules system? Firts I've heard of it, is this a scoop?
"ii. Additional uses of "energy" (turning, rebuking, commanding undead energy) and material to integrate with the Deities & Demigods rules systems to explain Holy Power."
Deities and Demigods rules system? Firts I've heard of it, is this a scoop?
BiggusGeekus
That's Latin for "cool"
I agree with Ryan I just have a couple of minor quibbles:
1) He seems to be saying the RPGs should be more expensive. So while its nice we all think Ryan is dead on that also means we all have no problem paying more money for these games.
2) The posters on RPG.net are largely small press game designers. What on earth are they supposed to do? Raise their prices $15 while WotC keeps their prices stable? That's insanity. I just picked up Twin Crowns: d20. It is a 300+ page softback book with artwork that isn't so great. But there are a LOT of good ideas in there (my biggest beef is with the maps) and I got 'em all for under US$30. The FRCS is US$40 and has much nicer production. What are the Twin Crown guys supposed to do? If they raise their prices $10 absolutely no one is going to touch their setting because the FRCS is about the same size, has better art, and is now hypothetically costing just as much.
I agree with Ryan that these games should be more expensive. But the small press people -- to whom he was addressing -- are last in line for having any ability to do anything about the problem.
1) He seems to be saying the RPGs should be more expensive. So while its nice we all think Ryan is dead on that also means we all have no problem paying more money for these games.
2) The posters on RPG.net are largely small press game designers. What on earth are they supposed to do? Raise their prices $15 while WotC keeps their prices stable? That's insanity. I just picked up Twin Crowns: d20. It is a 300+ page softback book with artwork that isn't so great. But there are a LOT of good ideas in there (my biggest beef is with the maps) and I got 'em all for under US$30. The FRCS is US$40 and has much nicer production. What are the Twin Crown guys supposed to do? If they raise their prices $10 absolutely no one is going to touch their setting because the FRCS is about the same size, has better art, and is now hypothetically costing just as much.
I agree with Ryan that these games should be more expensive. But the small press people -- to whom he was addressing -- are last in line for having any ability to do anything about the problem.
CRGreathouse
Community Supporter
reapersaurus said:
Look at the splatbook covers - they're brown. Brown cover = player accessory, red cover = monster book, and blue cover = other DM book.
Storm Raven
First Post
reapersaurus said:
Umm, how so? For the most part I find the PrC's in the various books to be very useful for PC use. The same is true for the other information in the books: each has some interesting new feats that are attractive, some spells and equipment that gets incorporated into PC concepts and so on.
In the campaign I am participating in right now I think three or four of six PCs have some element from one or more of the splatbooks incorporated into their character. I just don't see how they are more targeted to the DM than the players.
RPG.net can be very, very hostile to people, newbies, regulars and professionals alike. And it has more than it's fair share of rabid dogs who just chew and rend and bite and aren't really there to do anything else.
It's also got a large chunk of folks who are pretty strongly anti-D&D. Ryan's posts are always incredibly thoughtful, specific and backed up, and illuminating, and I'm happy he still posts on occasion to clarify things when some folks are pushing their weird conspiracy theories.
I just wish we could get some more of his demographic research out of him! I totally groove on that sorta thing - it has got to be an interesting read.
It's also got a large chunk of folks who are pretty strongly anti-D&D. Ryan's posts are always incredibly thoughtful, specific and backed up, and illuminating, and I'm happy he still posts on occasion to clarify things when some folks are pushing their weird conspiracy theories.
I just wish we could get some more of his demographic research out of him! I totally groove on that sorta thing - it has got to be an interesting read.
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Aaron L
Hero
I completely agree with Ryan. If the rpg industry prices increased to be more in line with what other industries charged for comparable amounts of time/work/material, then there would be more/better rpgs produced. This goes right along with the Would you work in the RPG field? poll that was posted recently. Quite a few people posted that they wouldn't work in the field because it is not possible to make a living in it. Many people who work in the field do so out of love, and do it at a loss or as a side venture. If prices were more in line with reality, then more people would be able to work in the field full time, bringing in people who previously couldn't afford to work in the field, and could possibly increase the size of the hobby through a greater diversity of games being made.
Of course, the RPG field is a small market, and quite possibly prices raising to correspond to other industries could possibly kill the market. I don't think the RPG market is anywhere near the movie market, and sci-fi/fantasy movies are at the bottom of the movie market. So while I don't think the RPG industry can afford to be completely realistic with its pricing, I do think a litle raising of prices across the field would be beneficial.
I hope this makes some sense
Of course, the RPG field is a small market, and quite possibly prices raising to correspond to other industries could possibly kill the market. I don't think the RPG market is anywhere near the movie market, and sci-fi/fantasy movies are at the bottom of the movie market. So while I don't think the RPG industry can afford to be completely realistic with its pricing, I do think a litle raising of prices across the field would be beneficial.
I hope this makes some sense
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ColonelHardisson
What? Me Worry?
I think Ryan is quite an intelligent guy, but I simply don't get how he rationalizes this:
Actually, using the same kind of rationalization, no they aren't. Movies cost millions of dollars to produce; they cost that much again to promote, for the most part. Around my neck of the woods, it costs about $8 to go to the movies. If you want to buy the DVD of a movie, you can generally find it for less than $30 bucks.
The reason I quibble about this is that I've seen this rationalization before from WotC folk, or those who defend the prices, and it seems that the criteria used to rationalize why RPGs - specifically D&D - should cost more always includes an explanation of how expensive they are to make. If that is part of the criteria, then I don't see how movies don't outstrip RPGs as a value. Saying RPGs are infintely variable and provide many more hours of entertainment than an individual movie disregards the fact that many people find repeated viewings of a film, and detailed study of same, to be as endlessly fascinating as many of us find RPGs to be. It strikes me that such an attitude towards movies isn't too far removed from the attitude others have towards RPGs - that it's all just a big waste of time.
Actually, using the same kind of rationalization, no they aren't. Movies cost millions of dollars to produce; they cost that much again to promote, for the most part. Around my neck of the woods, it costs about $8 to go to the movies. If you want to buy the DVD of a movie, you can generally find it for less than $30 bucks.
The reason I quibble about this is that I've seen this rationalization before from WotC folk, or those who defend the prices, and it seems that the criteria used to rationalize why RPGs - specifically D&D - should cost more always includes an explanation of how expensive they are to make. If that is part of the criteria, then I don't see how movies don't outstrip RPGs as a value. Saying RPGs are infintely variable and provide many more hours of entertainment than an individual movie disregards the fact that many people find repeated viewings of a film, and detailed study of same, to be as endlessly fascinating as many of us find RPGs to be. It strikes me that such an attitude towards movies isn't too far removed from the attitude others have towards RPGs - that it's all just a big waste of time.
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