thread on WotC D&D pricing strategies

[BiggusGeekus]

With an RPG, you buy the product and then ... you have to do some hard work. You have to round up some people to play it. You have to learn rules. One person has to do the very hard work of being the DM, prepare adventures, referee the game with some amount of expertise for it to be fun.

A quibble with this point.

I think it is valid if, say, one has been playing D&D and then buys a copy of Shadowrun. But that's not what usually happens, especially with the d20 OGL.

For example, I buy Keep on the Borderlands. I decide the Caves of Chaos are a rather stupid monster zoo, but I like the keep and the four outdoor encoutners. In place of the keep, I drop in the Temple of Elemental Evil from the original Villiage of Hommlet module, but I remove the village. So now I have the Keep, the evil temple, and four outdoor encoutners. Violia!

I've noticed that this is typical of GMs. We tend to have a 'cut-n-paste' mentality (to test this you could start a "How have you modified the Forgotten Realms?" thread). So I think the start up time and work for a given product is a little lower than what you are implying.

 

[buzzard]

How many people play Pen & Paper RPGs as much as you? Or any of us who post here? We're not a very large segment of the population. Again, comparing the two is more fair if one compares fans who are as into the subject as each other; casual movie-goer vs. casual RPG player, or fanatics for both. Comparing RPG fans to casual movie-goers/viewers seems skewed, to me.

The problem with your analysis is that movie companies do not target their movies at the select few who do watch a DVD 45 times (of which I happen to be one, depending on the movie). They target them at the wider population. If they did not, they would not be able to recoup production costs.
However RPG companies do have a realistic expectation that most of their market does use the product repeatedly, and for quite a few total hours. RPGs are not targeted at the mainstream population, and there can be little expectation that Joe Average is going to give a tinkers damn about the release of the newest, greatest RPG product.

Buzzard

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I dunno...the average DM does a lot more prep work than someone going to a movie.

Even dropping a module "as is" into a game still involves reading it and making notes as to how to run it.

 

[Storm Raven]

How many people play Pen & Paper RPGs as much as you? Or any of us who post here? We're not a very large segment of the population. Again, comparing the two is more fair if one compares fans who are as into the subject as each other; casual movie-goer vs. casual RPG player, or fanatics for both. Comparing RPG fans to casual movie-goers/viewers seems skewed, to me.

Lots. Actually, based on the market data that WotC has said they gathered, the typical pen and paper RPG customer plays more than I do. Their market research showed that most gamers tended to play about once a week for five to six hours a session (i.e. about twice as much as I do).

The point is that for those who play RPGs, the value of the books far outweighs the value derived from a movie. The market that RPG companies are marketing to is comprised of these gamers, hence they shoudl take into account the characteristics of those who make up the market.

 

[Storm Raven]

With an RPG, you buy the product and then ... you have to do some hard work. You have to round up some people to play it. You have to learn rules. One person has to do the very hard work of being the DM, prepare adventures, referee the game with some amount of expertise for it to be fun. And if you don't already have these things in place, the act of buying an RPG is kind of a gamble. There's a chance it won't pay off. So maybe that has an impact on perceived value as well?

Ah, but you are assuming that people are not deriving enjoyment from the process that you are describing as "hard work". Lots of people like that part of the gaming experience as much, if not more than, the actual game play. How many gamers do you know who design game settings and material all the time, but never actually use it in a game? I know several: it seems that most gamers I know have some sort of homebrew world in the background that they tinker with at home, and in most cases they know they will never DM it, or use it in a campaign.

What you call "hard work", I call added value. The actual process of campaign and adventure development is part of the fun, and adds to the entertainment value derived from a game book.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

The problem with your analysis is that movie companies do not target their movies at the select few who do watch a DVD 45 times (of which I happen to be one, depending on the movie). They target them at the wider population. If they did not, they would not be able to recoup production costs.
However RPG companies do have a realistic expectation that most of their market does use the product repeatedly, and for quite a few total hours. RPGs are not targeted at the mainstream population, and there can be little expectation that Joe Average is going to give a tinkers damn about the release of the newest, greatest RPG product.

Buzzard

Then maybe RPG companies should target a larger audience...? One of the things WotC was trying to do was bring in new players, after all. Even if they never achieve the same audience as movies, they can still try for a larger base of players by targeting the casual player.

And movie studios are targeting DVDs at repeat viewers, with all the extras that are becoming commonplace on DVDs. Matter of fact, DVD sales are cutting into rentals very much right now, and are projected to do so for the foreseeable future. This indicates people are watching them over and over.

 

[EricNoah]

What you call "hard work", I call added value. The actual process of campaign and adventure development is part of the fun, and adds to the entertainment value derived from a game book.

I personally find pleasure in that aspect too, but I do think it's one of the major stumbling blocks to the average person entering into the hobby.

 

[EOL]

Tell me about it! Recently I was torn to pieces because I took a stand against a thread in which participants were describing graphic and disturbing tortures with very little if any relevance to gaming. Since then I have found myself going to RPG.net more and more infrequently. Let them tear at each other like wild animals; I certainly don't have to jump in the pit....

Unfortunately in my experience that level of carnivorous behavior is more the rule than the exception for online communities. We should be grateful that this community is as civil as it is.

 

[KDLadage]

This indicates people are watching them over and over.

Or it indicates that they simply are tired of paying $11 for $0.45 worth of popcorn and cherry coke...

 

[Isida KepTukari]

Originally posted by Ryan Dancey on the rpgnet boards:
But feel free to believe I don't know what I'm talking about; I've only run a retail operation, started a publishing company from scratch, co-designed the 3rd most successful trading card game in history and business managed the current renaissance in tabletop RPG gaming. As a guy who has published a few things and wants to publish more, you clearly have a better handle on the situation than me.

Ryan Dancey, the new Sultan of Smack! At least for today. That was really a good one!