AD&D 1E Three Things that can't be Fixed in 1e AD&D

[Celebrim]

I don't see any logical reason to bring in weapon speed as a factor.

I think that's kind of my point in a nutshell. It doesn't make sense given the long duration a spell takes to complete to take into account the fraction of a second longer it takes to strike with a two-handed sword compared to a dagger, especially given that this is a "close to melee" sort of situation where that advantage in striking time is mitigated by the fraction of a second of an additional step or lunge you have to take to get in range. These are things that are very fast - so fast that they are irrelevant to the granularity we are talking about of 18 seconds.

But beyond that, if you look at the distance to be traversed, we're talking about whether the bugbear that is potentially already running in as part of continuous action (carried over from the prior round) can in 18 seconds close a gap of say 12 feet or 12 yards or some really short distance. There is this huge disconnect between the skirmish level fights that D&D models and these time scales that D&D is using. And for my part I just always assumed that it was a carryover from this being abstract rules for mass combat, where Gygax surely knew that fights could go on for hours - something that you were never going to successfully simulate with six second rounds.

 

[Voadam]

Damn fine question, and I've probably oversimplified. I'm re-reading to refresh myself now.

The closest I'm seeing in the text to that plain statement is on DMG p65, under Spell Casting During Melee, item 2, "Attacks directed at spell casters will come on that segment of the round shown on their opponent's or their own side's initiative die, whichever is applicable. (If the spell caster's side won the initiative with a roll of 5, the attack must come then, not on the opponent's losing roll of 4 or less). Thus, all such attacks will occur on the 1st-6th segments of the round."

OK, so my guy with a two handed sword who loses initiative attacks the spellcaster on their initiative which is in the first 1-6 segments of the round, implied segment 2 for the winning side rolling a 5. All his other two-handed sword buddies trading blows in melee go at segments 3-6 depending on their losing initiative roll.

But wait . . .

And on p66-67 Other Weapon Factor Determinants: "The speed factor of a weapon also determines when the weapon strikes during the course of the round with respect to opponents who are engaged in activity other than striking blows. Thus, suppose side A, which has achieved initiative (action) far the round, has a magic-user engaged in casting a spell. Compare the speed factor of the weapon with the number of segments which the spell will require to cast to determine if the spell or the weapon will be cast/strike first, subtracting the losing die roll on the initiative die roll from the weapon factor and treating negative results as positive. Example: A sword with a factor of 5 (broad or long) is being used by an opponent of a magic user attempting to cast a fireball spell (3 segment casting time). If the sword-wielding attacker was represented by a losing initiative die roll of 1,the spell will be cast prior to the sword's blow. A 2 will indicate that the spell and the blow are completed simultaneously. A 3-5 will indicate that the blow has a chance of striking (if a successful "to hit" roll is made) before the spell is cast, arriving either as the spell is begun or during the first segment of its casting. Suppose instead that a dagger were being employed. It has a speed factor of only 2, so it will strike prior to spell completion if the initiative roll which lost was 1-4 (the adjusted segment indicator being 1, 0, 1, 2 respectively) and simultaneously if the die score was a 5. If the weapon being employed was a two-handed sword (or any other weapon with a speed factor of 10, or 9 for that matter) there would be no chance far the reacting side to strike the spell caster prior to completion of the fireball. Note that even though a spell takes but 1 segment to complete, this is 6 seconds, and during that period a reacting attacker might be able to attack the magic-user or other spell caster prior to actual completion of the spell! If combat is simultaneous, there is no modification of the weapon speed factor."

So no my two-handed sword wielder only starts counting down till their action on segment 2, the fireball goes off at 5 and his attack comes later, probably after his buddy with a two-handed sword engaged with an opponent striking blows gets off their attack at segments 3-6.

If it was a 1 segment magic missile going off at 3 I am not sure, does the MU attacker go at 3 or 4, possibly before his two-hander buddy trading blows to the side or 10 segments after segment 2 (the next melee round)?

If it was a sixth level 6 segment casting time disintegrate, the spell and two-handed sword attack on the MU would come after the melee brawl two-handed attacks are resolved.