AD&D 1E Three Things that can't be Fixed in 1e AD&D

[Voadam]

Burning Hands is even pretty marginal in 3e when it goes out in a 10' arc and does 1d4 per level (save for half IIRC). The 3e version wouldn't be out of place in 1e. At low levels you prepared Sleep in 1e, then at higher levels you always prepared Magic Missile.

If you had the choice because you had the spell in your spellbook and made your percentage learn check to be able to prepare it.

I can't remember anyone ever preparing either Burning Hands or Shocking Grasp in 1e. You never wanted to be that close to anything.

Shocking Grasp was only a big deal in my 3e campaign because of the way touch attacks and feats work in my homebrew. You aren't considered armed delivering a touch attack in my homebrew so you normally would draw an attack of opportunity. But you can use a prepared staff or wand to deliver a touch attack without drawing an AoO, and you can also make the touch attack as part of the normal attack - so you can get both staff damage and the touch attack in the same round.

Similar to GURPS Magic. A big explicit rules use of wands and staves was extending your reach in combat beyond your fingertip in their highly granulated three foot grid combat.

Plus, I had a homebrew 'Elementalist' feat that buffed direct damage which was otherwise a pretty weak strategy in 3e. This let a 1st level M-U hit for 1d6+2d8+2 damage with Shocking Grasp, which was just a huge finisher, and do it from the second rank without having to get into swing range.

Did you house rule staves to be reach weapons?

None of that applies to trying to use Shocking Grasp in 1e, where you'd be just better off throwing darts or daggers and holding your spell for a situation where you can matter, and your only real option for that is Sleep.

Rolling anything but Sleep, MM, or Charm Person as your starting offensive spells is a decently big incentive to go with darts and daggers and save your spells for defense or utility. It doesn't hurt that MUs are most competitive on THAC0 at level 1 (equal to everybody but the fighter).

1e DMG page 39:

Returning to the recently-completed apprenticeship, let us now consider the
spells given to Redouleent by his wise old master. Obviously, an apprentice must
know how to read magic to be of use to his master. It is also an absolute must
to anyone following the profession of magic-user, so that spell is
AUTOMATICALLY on each magic-user character’s list of known spells. Then
select by random means one spell each from the offensive, defensive, and
miscellaneous categories listed below. Redouleent, or any other player character
magic-user will then have a total of 4 — count them — 4 spells with which to
seek his (or her) fortune!
Offensive Spells Defensive Spells Misc. Spells
1. Burning Hands Affect Normal Fires Comprehend Languages
2. Charm Person Dancing Lights Detect Magic
3. Enlarge Feather Fall Erase
4. Friends Hold Portal Find Familiar
5. Light Jump Identify
6. Magic Missile Protection From Evil Mending
7. Push Shield Message
8. Shocking Grasp Spider Climb Unseen Servant
9. Sleep Ventriloquism Write
0. (choose) (choose) (choose)
Choice should be left to the player. Note that both Nystul’s Magic Aura and
Tenser’s Floating Disc must be located by the character; they can never be
known at the start. If your campaign is particularly difficult, you may wish to
allow choice automatically. You can furthermore allow an extra defensive or
miscellaneous spell, so that the character begins with 5 spells.

 

[Lanefan]

But recently I've been thinking of if it works sort of like 3e holding the charge, the first creature touched after casting it, so you cast it then next round go into melee combat.

That's about how we do it, too.

Most times, a caster casting a spell like Shocking Grasp stands behind a meat shield while casting then steps or reaches in to deliver the shock, either the same round or - as delivering it needs an easy to-hit roll - next round. After that, the charge fades and is lost.

I've always seen Cause xxxx Wounds spells as being used for torture or punishment rather than in combat.

 

[Celebrim]

Did you house rule staves to be reach weapons?

Apparently, yes. I have no memory of staves not working like they do in my game, but yes, the majority of the time in staff fighting you are thrusting and not striking with it. In my game, they are reach weapons.

Rolling anything but Sleep, MM, or Charm Person as your starting offensive spells is a decently big incentive to go with darts and daggers and save your spells for defense or utility. It doesn't hurt that MUs are most competitive on THAC0 at level 1 (equal to everybody but the fighter).

MM is basically useless before about 7th level when it starts hitting hard enough to matter.

 

[Mannahnin]

Yeah, some of these spells would clearly primarily get use based on being randomly the ones an M-U happened to know at 1st level. Or the consolation spells he got if he failed his chance to know/learn Sleep.

Shocking Grasp gained the ability to "hold the charge" in 2E. 1rd per caster level. In 3.0 it lasted indefinitely "until discharged", became a Touch Attack (so was easier to hit with), and additionally got a +3 to hit if the target was in metal armor, made out of metal, or carrying a lot of metal. In 3.5 they took away the ability to hold the charge, making the duration instantaneous.

Spells like Shocking Grasp and the Cause Wounds spells (and to a lesser extent something like Web, with its pathetic range (10' in B/X, 1/2" per CL in 1E) demonstrate that the intent was always to be able to cast spells in melee. It's just dangerous. Something you should really only do if you're desperate.

 

[Celebrim]

Yeah, some of these spells would clearly primarily get use based on being randomly the ones an M-U happened to know at 1st level. Or the consolation spells he got if he failed his chance to know/learn Sleep.

Just because I don't have sleep, doesn't mean I'm wasting my only spell slot on Burning Hands.

Rolling randomly, let's say I start with Charm Person, Feather Fall, and Find Familiar. I may risk casting Find Familiar, but I'm not going to memorize it ever again. Instead, I'll probably go with Feather Fall because a 10 foot fall could be lethal and I'm throwing darts or daggers.

8, 7, 2. Ok, that's a really good start. Shocking Grasp, Shield, Detect Magic. All three are not bad, but 8 times out of 10 I'm memorizing Detect Magic. Maybe Shield if I think there will be a lot of missiles thown my way. Either way, I'm throwing darts or daggers.

1, 2, 4 Burning Hands, Dancing Lights, Find Familiar. Bad start. Dancing lights and throwing darts or daggers. Chances of casting anything worthwhile is very small.

And oh boy was playing an M-U at low level so bad before 3e.

 

[David Howery]

hmm. Did people actually use the random % chance to know a spell rules? From what I remember back in the 1E gaming days, we pretty much let starting mages pick the spells they wanted (they already had a difficult start). I don't think we used the % chance of adding a new spell either.... if they found a scroll, they could copy it in, no problem. I don't remember how we did 'adding new spells when you gained a level', although I think it was just 'add one of whatever you want'....

 

[Voadam]

Just because I don't have sleep, doesn't mean I'm wasting my only spell slot on Burning Hands.

Rolling randomly, let's say I start with Charm Person, Feather Fall, and Find Familiar. I may risk casting Find Familiar, but I'm not going to memorize it ever again. Instead, I'll probably go with Feather Fall because a 10 foot fall could be lethal and I'm throwing darts or daggers.

8, 7, 2. Ok, that's a really good start. Shocking Grasp, Shield, Detect Magic. All three are not bad, but 8 times out of 10 I'm memorizing Detect Magic. Maybe Shield if I think there will be a lot of missiles thown my way. Either way, I'm throwing darts or daggers.

1, 2, 4 Burning Hands, Dancing Lights, Find Familiar. Bad start. Dancing lights and throwing darts or daggers. Chances of casting anything worthwhile is very small.

And oh boy was playing an M-U at low level so bad before 3e.

Oe was an exception. 1st level charm person RAW was permanent until dispelled and they were effectively your slave and so could fight for you as a new meat shield.

Very vancian of few spells but they could be whoppers, even from first level.

Charm Person: This spell applies to all two-legged, generally mammalian figures near to or less than man-size, excluding all monsters in the “Undead” class but including Sprites, Pixies, Nixies, Kobolds, Goblins, Orcs, Hobgoblins and Gnolls. If the spell is successful it will cause the charmed entity to come completely under the influence of the Magic-User until such time as the “charm” is dispelled (Dispel Magic). Range: 12”.

A little bit of wiggle room for a DM to quibble about what coming under the influence of means.

 

[Voadam]

Shocking Grasp gained the ability to "hold the charge" in 2E. 1rd per caster level. In 3.0 it lasted indefinitely "until discharged", became a Touch Attack (so was easier to hit with), and additionally got a +3 to hit if the target was in metal armor, made out of metal, or carrying a lot of metal. In 3.5 they took away the ability to hold the charge, making the duration instantaneous.

3e and 3.5 worked the same, both had holding the charge as a general rule for touch spells and both gave shocking grasp an instantaneous duration.

Spells like Shocking Grasp and the Cause Wounds spells (and to a lesser extent something like Web, with its pathetic range (10' in B/X, 1/2" per CL in 1E) demonstrate that the intent was always to be able to cast spells in melee. It's just dangerous. Something you should really only do if you're desperate.

B/X did not have shocking grasp.

Web at even 10' range means you can cast it past your front row tankers as a wall if you want.

1e was always explicit that you could cast in melee.

Cause wounds and other cleric reversed touch spells in B/X was the sticking point. In the basic book they said rules would be provided in expert, then expert changed the phrasing for when you could cast spells.

 

[cbwjm]

That's why the AD&D initiative systems remain a subject of fascination for me. Because they're the only ones which A) allow for spells to be interrupted at all, AND B) make it more complex than a coinflip initiative roll, doing things like incentivizing faster spells and devices. Casting times are basically irrelevant or at best matter only in rare edge cases in most other editions.

Spell disruption was still in 3e but it was definitely easier on the casters as long as they put decent amounts of skill points into concentration they might be able to "save" against being disrupted or even set themselves up to cast defensively without having to worry about an attack of opportunity even occurring.

 

[cbwjm]

hmm. Did people actually use the random % chance to know a spell rules? From what I remember back in the 1E gaming days, we pretty much let starting mages pick the spells they wanted (they already had a difficult start). I don't think we used the % chance of adding a new spell either.... if they found a scroll, they could copy it in, no problem. I don't remember how we did 'adding new spells when you gained a level', although I think it was just 'add one of whatever you want'....

I think initially when I started in 2e we use the chance to learn a spell but it was quickly discarded along with maximum spells known. It pretty much became "You've found a scroll, is it from a prohibited school? No? Then you can add it to your spellbook." There was probably downtime/costs involved as well, likely whatever the books advised.