Thri-Kreen Monk.

[AmorFati]

Ok, if I make a Thri-Kreen monk, and I take the Multiattack and Improved Multiattack feats, I should at, say Monk level 15, get 3 attacks with the main hand, and 2 attacks with each off-hand?
That is 9 attacks.
Then, using flurry of blows, I'll get 2 extra attacks.
I assume I dont get 2 extra attacks each hand, or am I way off here?

And if I make it an Half-celestial, will the bonuses to speed from monk also apply to fly speed?

 

[Timeron Malachi]

I'm honestly not sure how it ends up working out, but I'm pretty sure that you would just get whatever attacks your Flurry Of Blows would give you.

If you look at the description of the Flurry of Blows ability, it says that your unarmed attacks could be head-butts, kicks, knees, jabs, whatever. I don't think a "normal" PC, such as a human or elven monk, can take Two-Weapon Fighting to get extra attacks or anything with Flurry of Blows. So, I don't think that Multi-attack stacks with it.

However, I'm honestly not sure.

 

[Infiniti2000]

And if I make it an Half-celestial, will the bonuses to speed from monk also apply to fly speed?

The monk/thri-kreen/centaur part has been handled so many times I won't answer that. Hopefully, Patryn will paste his Standard Response and answer all your questions on it (no sticky on this and other questions?).

As for the fly speed, though, first of all the fly speed is twice the base speed (not monk improved). For example, a human has a base speed of 30, so the half-celestial would be Spd 30, fly 60. Having monk would increase both, and at monk 15, it would be Spd 80, fly 110. It would not be fly 160 (twice the based+monk speed).

 

[AmorFati]

Hmmm... If my math was correct, I should have have a total of 38 attacks, each round...

Main hand: +79/+79/+79/+79/+79/+74/+74/+69/+69/+64/+64
Off hand 1: +79/+79/+79/+69/+69/+59/+59/+49/+49
Off hand 2: +79/+79/+79/+69/+69/+59/+59/+49/+49
Off hand 3: +79/+79/+79/+69/+69/+59/+59/+49/+49

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Ok, if I make a Thri-Kreen monk, and I take the Multiattack and Improved Multiattack feats, I should at, say Monk level 15, get 3 attacks with the main hand, and 2 attacks with each off-hand?

Remind me - the Improved Multiattack feat you're discussing is different from the Epic-level feat present in the SRD, right?

IMPROVED MULTIATTACK [GENERAL]

Prerequisite: Three or more natural weapons, Multiattack

Benefit: The creature’s secondary attacks with natural weapons have no penalty. They still add only one-half the creature’s Strength bonus, if any, to damage dealt.
Normal: Without this feat, the creature’s secondary natural attacks have a –5 penalty (or a –2 penalty if it has the Multiattack feat).

That is 9 attacks.
Then, using flurry of blows, I'll get 2 extra attacks.
I assume I dont get 2 extra attacks each hand, or am I way off here?

Here's the assumptions I'm operating under while typing the answer to your questions:

1. The thrikreen has a normal natural attack progression that looks like:

Attack: Claw +X, XdX+X
Full Attack: 4 Claws +X, XdX+X, Bite +X-5, XdX+.5X

2. You aren't holding anything in your hands.

3. The BAB from your monstrous humanoid (or whatever Thrikreen count as) is 0. It's not, but I don't have any better data. Accordingly, I'll build everything off of your monk BAB.

4. The IMA feat works as described above.

5. The thrikreen is a large creature.

If you can post the real stats, I'll incorporate them in an updated chart.

You have the following options:

• Single Attack (Standard Action)
  1. Monk Attack: Unarmed Strike +11, 3d6+X
  2. Natural Attack 1: Claw +11, XdX+X
  3. Natural Attack 2: Bite +11, XdX+.5X
• Full Attack (Full-Round Action)
  1. Monk Attack: Unarmed Strike +11 / +6 / +1, 3d6+X
  2. Natural Attack: 4 Claws +11, XdX+X; 1 Bite +11, XdX+.5X
  3. Monk Attack & Natural Attack: Unarmed Strike +11 / +6 / +1, 3d6+X; 4 Claws +11, XdX+.5X; 1 Bite +11, XdX+.5X
  4. Flurry of Blows: Unarmed Strike +11 / +11 / +11 / +6 / +1, 3d6+X

Now, the rationale:

1. Unarmed strikes do not need to be made with the hands; they may be made with feet, headbuts, knees-to-the-groin, boots-to-the-head, etc. Accordingly, using unarmed strike does not impede use of claws.

2. Similarly, unarmed strikes and claws are completely different weapons. One is, for purposes of this discussion, a manufactured weapon. The other is a natural weapon, and therefore follows its own rules.

3. When using natural weapons and manufactured weapons together, the manufactured weapons are primary, and the natural weapons are treated as secondary. Normally, this means that they take a -5 penalty on to-hit rolls and only apply .5 of your Strength modifier to damage. However, because of the feats you specified, secondary natural attacks are made at no penalty, though the .5 Strength mod still applies.

4. This one's important! Whenever you use Flurry of Blows, you are limited to using unarmed strikes and monk-specific weapons. A natural attack form is not a monk-specific weapon, nor is it an unarmed strike. Accordingly, you may not use them at the same time you are using Flurry of Blows. Some people believe that this means you may use them after a Flurry of Blows, but in the same sequence of attacks. I believe that view to be complete pish. Check with your DM, however.

 

[AmorFati]

Ok, I wrote Multiattack, I meant Multiweapon.

So, if I have Multiattack, 4 arms, and 2 attacks from monk BAB, I can NOT do 2unarmed attacks with each arm?
But if I wield a weapon in 3 arms, I can do unarmed with primary arm, and then "regular" attacks with the 3 other arms, is this correct?

 

[Infiniti2000]

As a monk, you don't even need an empty hand to do unarmed attacks. And, using manufactured weapons instead of natural weapons changes things significantly, requiring the use of two-weapon fighting.

 

[AmorFati]

ah...
I said Multiattack and Imp. Multiattack in the first post, however, what I meant (*blames it on lack of sleep or something like that*) was Multiweapon fighting, wich works like TwoWeapon fighting, only with more hands.

Anyway, what I don't yet know is; How many attacks can I do with my Unarmed weapon damage in a round?

Assuming:
BAB from monk give me 2 attacks each round.
Thri-Kreen got 4 arms.
With Improved Multiattack feat, I can do 2 attacks with each off-hand (all 3)
Then I choose to full-attack.
If I wield a Kama in each of the 4 hands, I'll get a total of 8 attacks in one round, no?
But If I wanted to do unarmed damage instead, can I do that with all the 8 attacks?
Or do I do 2 unarmed attacks, and 6 attacks with the kama?
Or only 2 unarmed attacks, and thats it?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Ok, I wrote Multiattack, I meant Multiweapon.

The Multiweapon Fighting feat does not allow you to use natural attacks - it applies to manufactured weapons only. So, you'd need to be wielding weapons in each of those other three hands.

So, if I have Multiattack, 4 arms, and 2 attacks from monk BAB, I can NOT do 2unarmed attacks with each arm?

No, because an Unarmed Strike isn't equivalent to an arm. It's a weapon in its own right that is always available. In other words, a human has two arms and two legs - he doesn't have two Unarmed Strikes available to him, let alone 4. He's got one.

A human can make an off-hand attack with an unarmed strike even when he's using a tower shield and a longsword.

Similarly, a thrikreen doesn't have 6 limbs available for unarmed strikes - he's got six limbs and one unarmed strike weapon.

But if I wield a weapon in 3 arms, I can do unarmed with primary arm, and then "regular" attacks with the 3 other arms, is this correct?

If you have a weapon in all of your hands, you can use them in conjunction with an unarmed strike. Note, however, that for a monk, "There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed."

Interpretations about what that actually means are varied, but my reading is that it means what it says, that there is no such thing as an off-hand unarmed attack for monks.

Generally, a character can only fight with two weapons in any given turn - a primary and an off-hand. A human holding a longsword and a shortsword could not use both in conjunction with an unarmed strike (as this would be combining three weapons).

Multiarmed characters, then, present an interesting situation. Can they make an unarmed strike as a primary attack and then treat all wielded weapons as off-hand attacks?

I think they can.

Therefore, you could hold a weapon in each of your four hands and treat your unarmed strike as your primary attack. The weapons, then, are off-hand attacks. This gives a -4 penalty on all of your attacks this round (assuming at least one of those weapons is not light).

You then get to make all of your monk attacks as normal, and then two attacks with each hand (per Improved Multiweapon fighting).

Note that if you Flurry, you again fall under the requirement that you may use only unarmed strikes or monk weapons.

 

[AmorFati]

Thanks a bunch!

So, if I got you right, my thri-kreen monk, with BAB of +9/+4, could then, at least, make 2 unarmed attacks and 6 armed attacks. Great