Spoilers THUNDERBOLTS* (spoilers I guess?)

[FitzTheRuke]

In the comics the Thunderbolts were formed by Baron Zemo

That would be Daniel Bruhl's character, but it wouldn't have worked here.

 

[Necropolitan]

That would be Daniel Bruhl's character, but it wouldn't have worked here.

I know.

It's interesting that they took a character who was a Neo Nazi in the comics and made it so that his goal in the MCU is to destroy people with super powers because he thinks they'll inevitably turn fascist.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I know.

It's interesting that they took a character who was a Neo Nazi in the comics and made it so that his goal in the MCU is to destroy people with super powers because he thinks they'll inevitably turn fascist.

Well, it's what he would have done, so he expects it.

 

[jian]

I know.

It's interesting that they took a character who was a Neo Nazi in the comics and made it so that his goal in the MCU is to destroy people with super powers because he thinks they'll inevitably turn fascist.

To be fair he used to run a highly questionable special forces unit slash death squad and his entire country was destroyed by superhumans so his life experiences and schema might be a tad different from most people. But he might also not be wrong.

I like MCU Zemo - he’s not a fascist but he’s also a terrible person with understandable reasons for his actions, who knows he’s a terrible person. He’d actually fit quite well with this team - they desperately need a thinker, and I think he’d appreciate Bob as one more data point in favour of his personal theory and respect his choice to lock himself up in his own head as tight as possible. But he’s rightly rotting in Wakandan jail for the murder of the last king but one so it seems unlikely that Shuri will let him out.

As for whether any of the film lineup match any comics lineup:

• Bucky has led the Thunderbolts a couple of times.
• Yelena (who’s changed to be more like the MCU version) has recently been a member of Bucky’s Thunderbolts in 2023.
• Walker has been a Thunderbolts member/warden before and has recently been a member of Bucky’s Thunderbolts.
• Alexei, similarly, was recruited into Bucky’s Thunderbolts.
• Ghost (not Ava, an unnamed male version) was a member of the Thunderbolts during and after the Osborn administration.
• Bob was a Mighty Avengers member, and basically a Thunderbolt (Dark Avenger) under Osborn.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Yes, that was great. It’s a pity they didn’t keep the name.

That’s was a pretty great film, doing some really good work around depression, self-worth, the need to support each other, toxic masculinity, and of course avoiding the Marvel disease of a third act set piece battle. I think Eva/Ghost needed more character time, but eh, that’s a minor quibble.

I also noticed Ava was in the background a lot. When you only have two hours, giving that many characters enough screen time is tough.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Yes, that was great. It’s a pity they didn’t keep the name.

That’s was a pretty great film, doing some really good work around depression, self-worth, the need to support each other, toxic masculinity, and of course avoiding the Marvel disease of a third act set piece battle. I think Eva/Ghost needed more character time, but eh, that’s a minor quibble.

It's not just the fact that those social issues were addressed, but how they were addressed that stands out to me. How Bob's bipolar disorder was addressed was quite good. Lots of texture/layers/nuance. Very well done. The 'toxic masculinity' you brought up, also well done. Ghost and Yelena call out Wyatt on it, but the film recognises that he does this because of the way he was raised. The movie gives him a chance to grow, and he does (sort of). But he's given that chance, without pulling any punches on his BS.

 

[jian]

It's not just the fact that those social issues were addressed, but how they were addressed that stands out to me. How Bob's bipolar disorder was addressed was quite good. Lots of texture/layers/nuance. Very well done. The 'toxic masculinity' you brought up, also well done. Ghost and Yelena call out Wyatt on it, but the film recognises that he does this because of the way he was raised. The movie gives him a chance to grow, and he does (sort of). But he's given that chance, without pulling any punches on his BS.

I did mean Walker, but more I meant the way Valentina approached Bob. Seeing that he was traumatised and bipolar and that he’d signed up for the trial seeking self-worth, she tried to control Bob by telling him that he was special and could be a hero by fighting whomever she told him to, that his actions were justified by his power and privilege. This is a pretty classic toxic masculinity technique for recruiting terrorists and the like.

But toxic masculinity is no way to reliably control anyone, and it’s no way to build any sort of genuine relationship or mental stability, and so Bob rejected her commands almost at the first opportunity and then gave in to the Void when she betrayed him.

I thought it was quite telling that (on screen at least) Bob never killed anyone, and that probably means he was trying to be a good person even when handling overwhelming power while manic or depressed.

 

[Stalker0]

I also noticed Ava was in the background a lot. When you only have two hours, giving that many characters enough screen time is tough.

At least they had her at all. Considering she hasn’t been seen since ant msn 2 (literally 10 years ago!), I could see the argument to take her out early and keep taskmaster (who is a much more recent character)

 

[Paul Farquhar]

At least they had her at all. Considering she hasn’t been seen since ant msn 2 (literally 10 years ago!), I could see the argument to take her out early and keep taskmaster (who is a much more recent character)

Both are boring characters - a lot of people expected both to be killed off. But when you shoot a movie, you shoot a lot more scenes than make it into the finished movie. Then you include the more interesting ones. I'm afraid Pugh literally acted her off the screen.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

At least they had her at all. Considering she hasn’t been seen since ant msn 2 (literally 10 years ago!), I could see the argument to take her out early and keep taskmaster (who is a much more recent character)

Apparently, the original screenwriter had Taskmaster surviving and only find out she didn't make it at an early screening! And an interview with the director explaining why they decided to kill off Taskmaster.