Spoilers THUNDERBOLTS* (spoilers I guess?)

[jian]

Apparently, the original screenwriter had Taskmaster surviving and only find out she didn't make it at an early screening! And an interview with the director explaining why they decided to kill off Taskmaster.

Yeah, it’s basically an “anyone can die” Slipknot moment. While I don’t think she’d have added much to the film - not because she’s not potentially a great character but because it’s hard to focus on that many characters - I do think it was one of the only ways Thunderbolts copied/echoed the structure of the Suicide Squad films and I didn’t really like it. I don’t think it actually had much impact and I think it would have been better if she’d just not been there from the beginning.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I did mean Walker, but more I meant the way Valentina approached Bob. Seeing that he was traumatised and bipolar and that he’d signed up for the trial seeking self-worth, she tried to control Bob by telling him that he was special and could be a hero by fighting whomever she told him to, that his actions were justified by his power and privilege. This is a pretty classic toxic masculinity technique for recruiting terrorists and the like.

But toxic masculinity is no way to reliably control anyone, and it’s no way to build any sort of genuine relationship or mental stability, and so Bob rejected her commands almost at the first opportunity and then gave in to the Void when she betrayed him.

I thought it was quite telling that (on screen at least) Bob never killed anyone, and that probably means he was trying to be a good person even when handling overwhelming power while manic or depressed.

Yes, I turned to my daughter when Sentry finished beating the team and said, "And he went easy on them. You can see he still likes them."

 

[jian]

Yes, I turned to my daughter when Sentry finished beating the team and said, "And he went easy on them. You can see he still likes them."

Yeah, Bob is consistently trying to be a good person, and knows right and wrong when he sees it, mostly. I loved that one of his introductory framing scenes went like this:

Bob: You were Captain America?

Walker: Yeah, that’s right.

Bob: (snorts with laughter)

Walker: What?

Bob: You’re an @$$hole.

 

[pukunui]

Finally got to see this movie today. Fantastic film! I agree with everyone’s comments about its handling of mental health.

I liken my depression to a black hole, entropy, a void. So that really resonated with me. I teared up when the group all came together to hug Bob and let him know he wasn’t alone.


But so can Bob just not ever use his powers now?

 

[BRayne]

It was good. The "b-villains become heroes " is not exactly a new plot, but this is a decent twist. I do like them using established characters....though I would really have LOVED to see any original comic Thunderbolt.

Val's assistant is apparently meant to be Songbird at some point

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Val's assistant is apparently meant to be Songbird at some point

According to...

 

[jian]

According to...

IMDB, at least, where it says that Mel is supposed to be short for Melissa Gold. I doubt she’ll ever be a recognisable version of the character, though.

 

[pukunui]

I was thinking about this movie some more this morning, and while I think it does a good job addressing mental health overall, there’s one thing I think it gets wrong.

When Yelena goes to visit Alexei, he is watching an old TV clip of himself being cheered during a parade. He later admits to Yelena tells that he was happiest when he was popular back home in Russia, and he suggests she will be happy too if she seeks a more public-facing role, something that her sister “understood”.

This message is later reinforced during the climax when Yelena perks up when she notices the bystanders clapping and cheering for her.

The idea that someone who is depressed and lonely should seek happiness through the attention of adoring crowds is not a good mental health message.

True happiness needs to come from within – and through genuine human connections, not superficial ones.

I know this is a superhero movie, but there’s so much literature about how deeply unhappy many popular celebrities are. They seek the adoration of others to fill the hole inside themselves.

Being a popular superhero isn’t a sustainable long-term solution for Yelena’s depression.

 

[jian]

I was thinking about this movie some more this morning, and while I think it does a good job addressing mental health overall, there’s one thing I think it gets wrong.

When Yelena goes to visit Alexei, he is watching an old TV clip of himself being cheered during a parade. He later admits to Yelena tells that he was happiest when he was popular back home in Russia, and he suggests she will be happy too if she seeks a more public-facing role, something that her sister “understood”.

This message is later reinforced during the climax when Yelena perks up when she notices the bystanders clapping and cheering for her.

The idea that someone who is depressed and lonely should seek happiness through the attention of adoring crowds is not a good mental health message.

True happiness needs to come from within – and through genuine human connections, not superficial ones.

I know this is a superhero movie, but there’s so much literature about how deeply unhappy many popular celebrities are. They seek the adoration of others to fill the hole inside themselves.

Being a popular superhero isn’t a sustainable long-term solution for Yelena’s depression.

It’s an interesting one. I really liked that first scene, because while Alexei has a point - being a freelance murderer for the CIA is a terrible career and Yelena would be better off trying to do something more altruistic and less nihilistic with her life - he also has the wrong end of the stick, in that he conflates being a hero with getting fame and glory.

But Yelena does at least talk to Valentina about changing her work conditions to involve less crime and murder, and it’s actually Valentina who uses the term “public-facing” to mock her (and thinking Yelena won’t notice because she’s too stupid because she’s just some gig economy assassin, not management like her), while of course planning to have her killed, because what’s the point of a Doordash murderer who isn’t really into murdering any more?

And then the tables turn and Valentina needs someone to pretend to be a hero for the cameras, and Yelena and the Thunderbolts will do for now. That’s not necessarily what any of them actually want (OK, maybe Alexei and John are super into it, but I doubt Ava, Bob, or Bucky actually love it), including Yelena, but at least she’s doing some version of what she’s good at and she’s doing some good, so hey, why not. It’s not her happy ending, it’s a work in progress.

 

[chuckdee]

taskmaster (who is a much more recent character)

Much more recent, but also much less developed. I don't think she even had any lines in Black Widow.

Also interesting that similar mechanisms (feelings) were used in this and BNW, but this one doesn't get the same hate for it.