Tiamat, 4e, and (Lawful) Evil

[LostSoul]

The NPC in Fallcrest who worships Tiamat - Armos Kamroth - is a good example of a Tiamat follower, I think.

He's a Dickensian slum lord.

Might makes right makes it mine: He has the ability to make rents whatever he wants, so he does. The rents are too high, so he's stealing from them, and they can't do anything about it. Exploitation at its finest. (It would be better if he was the only one who could buy whatever they produced, but he doesn't have that much power.)

Take what is ours and only what is ours: He only charges rent; he follows the "rules" (such as they are) and doesn't openly steal from his tenants. He doesn't just wander into someone's home and take their rabbit stew, not without counting it against rent owed.

 

[Umbran]

• And yet, Tiamat is the goddess of greed. She teaches her followers that taking from the weak is acceptable. This doesn't follow the LE model at all; bullying is more CE.

I have to say you are wrong there. LE believes in structures for power. Anyone higher in the structure can probably take from those below. Bullying people below you in the structure, as well, is entirely okay.

Lawful means there's some well defined method to your madness. You can't take from just anyone you want to at any old time - but that doesn't mean you can't be greedy. Consider the whole Robin Hood idea - the evil lord raises his taxes to the point where it is burdensome, well within the law and his rights, but still doing harm. That's LE. And his tax collectors beating the money out of the peasants, still LE, as it is within the acknowledged power structures of the culture. Robin steps outside that structure, so he's not so lawful.

 

[Cam Banks]

Takhisis, who the current Tiamat obviously has some feedback loop into, seeks to conquer everything. She basically wants to be the one in charge. This isn't a Chaotic Evil thing, it's a corporate villain kind of thing, and is therefore perfect for Evil. She's like Doctor Doom or Fu Manchu or any number of megalomaniacal arch-villains: she employs countless minions, takes what isn't hers because she thinks she deserves it, but follows the rules because she's bound by oaths and laws that transcend the gods. So she looks for loopholes all the time, and when she finds one, she exploits the heck out of it.

So given all that, I don't see any reason why Tiamat shouldn't be exactly the same.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Obryn]

Don't stop and worry that there's some real, game-related difference between Evil and Lawful Evil. 4e "Evil" basically covers Lawful and Neutral Evils; it's just that not every Evil being goes about being bad in the same way.

There are Evil things that like hierarchy. There are Evil things who don't care about hierarchies. Tiamat can easily fill any of these roles. Just role-play her church in whatever way seems best... Unlike previous editions, 4e alignment has next to zero mechanical effect, other than a few stray and unusual powers and items.

-O