Tide of Iron Question

Baumi

Adventurer
There are now several Ways to increase the push distance of the Tide of Iron Power. Tide of Iron says "You can shift into the space that the target occupied.", does that mean that I can follow him (did he occupy all the squares he was pushed through?) or only move to the enemies original space and therefore am no longer in reach?
 

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There are now several Ways to increase the push distance of the Tide of Iron Power. Tide of Iron says "You can shift into the space that the target occupied.", does that mean that I can follow him (did he occupy all the squares he was pushed through?) or only move to the enemies original space and therefore am no longer in reach?
You can only shift as far as you can shift AND the target square must be within the target's original space. Note that you don't have to shift at all, if you don't want to.
 

You can only shift as far as you can shift AND the target square must be within the target's original space. Note that you don't have to shift at all, if you don't want to.

Except Tide of Iron doesn't give a limit on how far you can shift.

So, any part of the enemy's old position is a legal place to shift into.
 

Except Tide of Iron doesn't give a limit on how far you can shift.
So, any power, feat, etc. that allows shifting somewhere (or under certain circumstances) without giving a limit means it's a shift without any limits?

I rather doubt that.

IIRC, exception-based design means that all the basic rules apply except the ones that are explicitly overruled by the power, feat, etc. So, unless a power specifies how far you may shift, it's a standard shift.
 

It doesn't matter how far you push the target -- the space he occupied (past tense) must have been within your melee reach. So you're either shifting 1 sq (normal weapon) or 2 sq (reach weapon) regardless of where the enemy ends up.

That's my interpretation, anyway.

Although I am surprised they didn't fix Tide of Iron when they made all the other fixes to "you can shift" powers. *shrug*
 

So, any power, feat, etc. that allows shifting somewhere (or under certain circumstances) without giving a limit means it's a shift without any limits?

I rather doubt that.

IIRC, exception-based design means that all the basic rules apply except the ones that are explicitly overruled by the power, feat, etc. So, unless a power specifies how far you may shift, it's a standard shift.

Shifting into a specific location IS an exception to the general one square rule.

By stating that you go to a specific location, it overrides concerns about distance and choice of where you can shift. To then limit the distance, it must state 'shift x squares to a space adjacent to the target'.
 


It doesn't matter how far you push the target -- the space he occupied (past tense) must have been within your melee reach. So you're either shifting 1 sq (normal weapon) or 2 sq (reach weapon) regardless of where the enemy ends up.
Except in the case of colossal creatures: their space can be 4x4 or larger. If the power allowed shifting into any square within their space that could also mean shifting 4+ squares (and thus potentially more squares than your normal movement).

I sincerely doubt that's the intention of the power. Most of the more recent powers state a limit of some kind. So a clarification of the power would be helpful.
 

The other issue is that they've never issued a rule such that "when you are directed to move/shift/slide a creature into a specific square, you must pick as short a route as possible without the moving creature entering hindering or blocking terrain." So in theory, you could shift into every square on the board before entering your "destination" square. (they avoided patching this for most powers by specifying specific limits on shift/slide length, but they didn't do this for Tide of Iron).

Consider a whip+shield fighter hitting a back row monster with tide of Iron. Can she shift around the enemy lines?
Code:
      M
      M
      M
F     M    T->
      M
      M
      M
F is the fighter, T is the target. Can F shift into T's space after hitting with Tide of Iron? (presumably using the only available route -- a shift 8!)
 

I think the intent of the rule is that you are using your shield to move the target. For the above example with the whip the power doesn't make sense.

As for the original question, common sense suggests you may push the target a number of squares and then you may shift into a formerly occupied square of the target. If you pushed the target 2 squares and were able to shift 2 squares I think it makes sense that you can follow your target.
 

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