Tieflings of Melnibone

[Gold Roger]

" The 4E Tieflings evolved from the corrupt nobility of an ancient, powerful human empire that trafficked with devils to increase their power. they make good Warlocks."

Sounds kinda like Elric.

Take out "ancients" and point out it's not the whole nobility. Then it's exactly how I wanted to include Tieflings in my default 4E setting.

 

[jensun]

And in this, he's atypical. Melniboneans as a whole are certainly a people aligned with Chaos.

That is not the impression I got for the books except for a few minor exceptions. I suspect it is an artifact of the RPG with its much heavier emphasis on demon summoning and every Melnibonean having demon weapons and armour.

 

[Imaro]

IMHO these tieflings are almost carbon copies of the tieflings found in the Dawnforge campaign setting. It's almost the exact same background. I would also note that Dawnforge used racial talents that were gained throughout a characters lifetime to facilitate mixing more powerful starting races (minotaur, ogre, yuan-ti, drow) with less powerful (gnomes, humans, orcs).

As far as Elric and Melnibonians go, I think the parallels are there, but again IMHO, the Melniboneans are made much more interesting due to their connection with Chaos as opposed to EVIL. They are not an evil people, just amoral. They do what they desire, when they desire it and with the only consideration being to achieve their own desires. The interesting thing is that they are not a people subsumed or even regulated to servants by chaos, (ancient traditions and customs are followed by the Melniboneans) and the stories have ample examples of those who are "servants" to chaos and they are usually degenerates, mutants, insane etc. (just look at Pan Tang or Gaynor the Damned for an example of people who serve chaos rather than bargain and command it).

In my mind those Melniboneans who are sorcerers are more akin to equals with Chaos, more bargaining or commanding through pacts with these powers (as they seem apt to do with any power that can serve them). Some may consider this evil, but when looked at with more consideration, this attitude, when applied properly can lead to good as well. Chaos is also creativity, rebellion, luck, etc. It is this aspect that lends a more complex tapestry to their background, and makes the conflict between Law and Chaos much more interesting to me than Good vs. Evil.

Side Note: The 5th ed. and Elric roleplaying games do portray magic in a much different light than the sagas do (1st through 4th ed. & the Mongoose version to an extent portray magic in a way that is much closer to the actual source material.). In the beginning of the stories Elric, the greatest sorcerer and emperor of the Melnibonean people doesn't have a demon weapon and spends much more time in melee combat than casting spells.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

Sounds like them? Yes.

But no Tiefling could match the raw power of one Melnibonean vs one Human.

At least on a stat for state basis.

See any of the Elric games for examples.

 

[Mark Hope]

I love the Tiefling Empire thing. It's my favourite bit of 4e fluff... and I'm a 3e grognard . Yoinked for my 3e homebrew on the spot. Of course, I am an unabashed Moorcock fanboi as well, so the Melnibonean overtones were a big draw for me.

The Meniboneans were servants of Chaos for the vast majorty of their history, although they didn't start out that way. In the centuries before the novels, however, their alliance with Chaos has dwindled and is somewhat reinvigorated by Elric making a fresh pact with Arioch.

Either way, the tielfings make for a good chaos-tainted fallen empire race. Mind you, wasn't there something about 4e tieflings having more to do with devils than demons? Are devils still more aligned with Law in 4e? I really have no idea.

Except that the Melniboneans arent human or descended from humans at all...

[fanboi nitpick]Actually, the Melniboneans are descended from humans, specifically through the union of the human Ulrich von Bek and Alisaard, an Eldren woman (see Dragon in the Sword.) But, then again, the von Bek line is descended from Elric during his Thousand Year Dream on our Earth, so it's all a bit muddy, lol...[/fanboi nitpick]

 

[Ulrick]

"Arioch! Arioch! Blood and souls for my lord Arioch!"

The tiefling = Melinobonean connection is a strong one, though I don't think the D&D designers had that in mind for 4e. I think its just part of a long tradition in fantasy literature when humans breed with demons (or dieties), their off-spring possess supernatural powers.

 

[WhatGravitas]

"Arioch! Arioch! Blood and souls for my lord Arioch!"

The tiefling = Melinobonean connection is a strong one, though I don't think the D&D designers had that in mind for 4e. I think its just part of a long tradition in fantasy literature when humans breed with demons (or dieties), their off-spring possess supernatural powers.

Well, look here:

If you're a D&D and SF fan and you haven't tried out some of the old Blue Oyster Cult stuff, you're missing out. Cultosaurus Erectus, Secret Treaties, and Imaginos are my favorite BOC albums. Something in that mix of Michael Moorcock, Hell's Angels, and Heavy Metal just works for me.

Now take into account that Rich Baker was doing the 3.5 Warlock and blogged about doing Warlock powers for 4E and consider the strong link between Tieflings and Warlocks... I guess there IS a good smack of influence!

Cheers, LT.

 

[jensun]

[fanboi nitpick]Actually, the Melniboneans are descended from humans, specifically through the union of the human Ulrich von Bek and Alisaard, an Eldren woman (see Dragon in the Sword.) But, then again, the von Bek line is descended from Elric during his Thousand Year Dream on our Earth, so it's all a bit muddy, lol...[/fanboi nitpick]

Its been a long time since I have read Von Beck so I will take your word for it. Certainly the Elric timeline seems rather, convoluted. It isnt helped by the fact that hints and suggestions are spread across a score or more books.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I can see that.

But where do blink-elves come from?

 

[jasin]

That is not the impression I got for the books except for a few minor exceptions. I suspect it is an artifact of the RPG with its much heavier emphasis on demon summoning and every Melnibonean having demon weapons and armour.

I'm not familiar with the RPG. This is what Wikipedia has to say, referencing the books, not the RPG.

Two contradictory accounts of Imrryr’s special relationship with Arioch are given in the Elric series. The first appears in The Sailor on the Seas of Fate. In this version, the Melnibonéans came from R'lin K'ren A'a (“Where the High Ones Meet”), a city on an island in the jungle-covered western continent. The people of R'lin K'ren A'a were peaceful by nature, but the Lords of the Higher Worlds wanted the location for a meeting. In exchange for giving up the city, the royal family received Arioch’s patronage. Some of the refugees went as far as Sorcerer’s Isle; others went on to Melniboné, where the dragons were already living. Imrryr itself was built two centuries after the settling of the island.

A different version appears in The Revenge of the Rose. Originally the Melnibonéans were allied to the Balance and lived in two cities, Imrryr and H'hui'shan. The two cities disagreed whether to shift over to Chaos and accept the patronage of Arioch. In a civil war three days in length, Melniboné was left in ruins, but the inhabitants of H'hui'shan, the supporters of the Balance, were all killed. This version is told in the Dead Gods' Book and vouched for by the ghost of Sadric, Elric’s father, who claims that the dead are able to discern the truth. In both versions, the patronage of Chaos inevitably twists the Melnibonéans over time, making them cruel and aggressive instead of peaceful.

In both versions, accepting the patronage of Chaos is pretty much the defining moment that turns a proto-Melnibonean race into the Melniboneans of the books.