Time in Shadowdark

[Greg Benage]

One of the things I don't like about B/X is the rigorous tracking of in-game time, which is probably why we never actually did it when this was our game of choice back in the day. So I love the real-time torches. What I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around is why we're tracking torches in real time while we still rigorously track the passage of in-game time, crawler round by crawler round?

It would probably get a little dull if we couldn't shift into camp mode, but while we're crawling, why can't we track things such as extended durations and, most importantly, random encounters on a timer as well? If torches are meant to keep the game moving forward, why can't random encounters be on the clock, too? It's super easy to run multiple timers on my smart phone...

 

[AnotherGuy]

We play 5e and I track time on a tab within an excel spreadsheet for actual in-game time, light sources, spell durations, magical effects, conditions etc. I am not a fan of tracking things in real-time, I suppose it works for people who aren't using technology to assist them with this type of tracking but it leans far too much into gamist territory unnecessarily, for my liking.

Tracking the possibility of random encounters, if I recall correctly, exists for in-game time - but are you suggesting random encounters occur on a fixed clock thus eliminating the randomness of it?
I like that idea.

 

[Greg Benage]

Tracking the possibility of random encounters, if I recall correctly, exists for in-game time - but are you suggesting random encounters occur on a fixed clock thus eliminating the randomness of it?
I like that idea.

The first sentence under "Time" in the Shadowdark rules states, "Time passes in the game world at the same pace it's passing in the real world. One minute or hour of game time is equal to one minute or hour in real time." This is why we track torches in real time. I consider D&D and its progeny games with thoroughly gamist priorities, so this doesn't bother me in the slightest. Especially OSR games, with their explicit emphasis on player skill--they're gamist to the bone IMO. Anyway, as I said in the OP, I love real-time torches and dislike rigorous tracking of in-game time (YMMV).

My question is, if time is passing at the same rate in-game as it's passing in the real world, and if we're tracking torches in real-time already, why are we then counting "crawling rounds," a measure of in-game time, to determine when we should make random encounter checks? We're checking every 1-3 crawling rounds, depending on the danger level of the environment. Why not stick to the idea of real-time tracking and simply check for random encounters every 10-30 minutes (or whatever) of real time?

 

[AnotherGuy]

My question is, if time is passing at the same rate in-game as it's passing in the real world, and if we're tracking torches in real-time already, why are we then counting "crawling rounds," a measure of in-game time, to determine when we should make random encounter checks? We're checking every 1-3 crawling rounds, depending on the danger level of the environment. Why not stick to the idea of real-time tracking and simply check for random encounters every 10-30 minutes (or whatever) of real time?

Ah okay, I'm with you now. Very valid question.
I suspect it may be a relic that was passed over instead of being treated with the same consistency as the rest of the game.

 

[SpellObjectEnthusiast]

Each crawling round is a chance for each PC to do a single thing. It's so that the PCs have a limited number of actions they can accomplish before checking for additional danger.

The Black hack is another OSR game which uses both a real-time timer and also cares about crawling rounds.

 

[Greg Benage]

Each crawling round is a chance for each PC to do a single thing. It's so that the PCs have a limited number of actions they can accomplish before checking for additional danger.

"Game time equals real time" if applied consistently also seems to accomplish this, and further emphasizes the importance of player skill. How will you and your party exercise effective time management in the dungeon?

The Black hack is another OSR game which uses both a real-time timer and also cares about crawling rounds.

Yeah, I'm familiar with Black Hack, but unless the answer is "because Black Hack did it," that doesn't really answer my question. Again, I can think of plenty of reasons to track in-game time separately from real time (any simulationist priorities, really). I'm just trying to figure out if there's a good reason SD has us doing both, rather than committing to the "game time equals real time" principle or committing to in-game timekeeping. I've heard critics say "real-time torches are just a gimmick," and the fact that they seem to be the only case in which we really mean "game time equals real time" lends some support to that view.

Ultimately, I can just house rule that "game time really does equal real time" in crawling mode, so this isn't a dealbreaker or anything. I'm just trying to figure out if anything (important to me) is gained by tracking real time for torches and in-game time for everything else.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Real time is all that matters in Shadowdark 99% of the time, except when it's clearly unreasonable to do so. If your party is going to sail across a giant undersea lake that's going to take them an hour to do so, you're not expected to stare at each other across the coffee table for an hour, so it's hand-waved.

The rest of the time, the goal is to keep a sense of urgency for the players (as typified by the torch timer) and rotate play through all players (with the full-time initiative system).

I had been skeptical of the real-time aspects of play before I started running the game, but I find it valuable for both keeping everyone engaged and making sure everyone gets a chance to play, even the folks who might get talked over in 5E or other games. (Which I know, as DM, is in large part on me.)

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

My question is, if time is passing at the same rate in-game as it's passing in the real world, and if we're tracking torches in real-time already, why are we then counting "crawling rounds," a measure of in-game time, to determine when we should make random encounter checks? We're checking every 1-3 crawling rounds, depending on the danger level of the environment. Why not stick to the idea of real-time tracking and simply check for random encounters every 10-30 minutes (or whatever) of real time?

Because things can change more often than in 10 to 30 minutes.

Think of Pippin making all the noise in Moria and prompting one hell of a wandering monster check. That's something that happens to best effect in a turn-based system, rather than saying "well, in the past 10 minutes, you made a lot of noise, so we're going to roll with a higher check for wandering monsters."

 

[Greg Benage]

Because things can change more often than in 10 to 30 minutes.

Think of Pippin making all the noise in Moria and prompting one hell of a wandering monster check. That's something that happens to best effect in a turn-based system, rather than saying "well, in the past 10 minutes, you made a lot of noise, so we're going to roll with a higher check for wandering monsters."

Character actions can always trigger a random encounter check, regardless of whether you're making periodic checks by tracking in-game time (i.e. check once every three crawler rounds) or real time (i.e. check once every 30 minutes). This is stated explicitly on page 112: After explaining how often to check for random encounters, the rules state, "The GM might also check for an encounter if the characters create a loud disturbance."

 

[timbannock]

There's also the parts that talk about Time Passes and Regrouping. Those two rules (which can work separately or hand-in-hand) state that you can burn down the real-world torch timer at a faster pace when necessary, and changes when encounter checks are rolled.

So that's why rounds still matter. The "real time torch-timer" is sometimes but not always (and probably not often) a fallacy.