Timing of AoO + attacking helpless creatures in occupied square

[Bouncer]

I have questions about two situations that occured in last nights gaming session.

Q1. When does an Attack of Opportunity occur? For example: we have a spiked chain fighter in our party. When an opponent moves in to attack him he provokes an AoO when moving from 10' to 5', unless he's making a charge or a 5'-step. Does the AoO go of when the opponent is in the square at 10' or at 5'?

Q2. Can you attack someone who's helpless in a square occupied by someone else who's trying to protect him? If you're able to attack the helpless person, what kind of modifiers apply?

Thanks

 

[Darklone]

I have questions about two situations that occured in last nights gaming session.

Q1. When does an Attack of Opportunity occur? For example: we have a spiked chain fighter in our party. When an opponent moves in to attack him he provokes an AoO when moving from 10' to 5', unless he's making a charge or a 5'-step. Does the AoO go of when the opponent is in the square at 10' or at 5'?

A charge? He will provoke an AoO while charging. Do you mean Spring Attack?

Q2. Can you attack someone who's helpless in a square occupied by someone else who's trying to protect him? If you're able to attack the helpless person, what kind of modifiers apply?

Thanks

Usually, the other guy shouldn't be able to occupy the same square... Cuz this leads to the bad question what would happen when the unconscious person wakes up again or is cured?

 

[mikebr99]

I have questions about two situations that occured in last nights gaming session.

Q1. When does an Attack of Opportunity occur? For example: we have a spiked chain fighter in our party. When an opponent moves in to attack him he provokes an AoO when moving from 10' to 5', unless he's making a charge or a 5'-step. Does the AoO go of when the opponent is in the square at 10' or at 5'?

The AoO occurs when you are leaving the threatened square (ie. just as you exit 10'). Charge also provokes an AoO...

Q2. Can you attack someone who's helpless in a square occupied by someone else who's trying to protect him? If you're able to attack the helpless person, what kind of modifiers apply?

Thanks

Sure you can attack a helpless guy... but if you are using CdG, you'll povoke an AoO.

How is his friend protecting him? Using aid other to add +2 to his AC? Unless he has that defender PrC, that is probably the best the guy can do... whether he is in the same square or not.

I would also make the defender use Balance while fighting from an occupied square so as not to step on the helpless guy, and possible fall himself.

YMMV


Mike

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

How is his friend protecting him? Using aid other to add +2 to his AC? Unless he has that defender PrC, that is probably the best the guy can do... whether he is in the same square or not.

Also, the Defender should provide some cover (half?) for the helpless victim.

AR

 

[Bouncer]

Please disregard my question about the charge action. An attack of opportunity is of course triggered even during the charge.

My question regarding the trip attack is: if tripped while moving from 10' to 5 as result of Aoo', in which square the tripped character falls? In 10' square or 5' square?

Helping the poor unconcious guy is by giving him a combination of cover (+4 AC and aid (if successful +2 AC). I'm talking now about a regular attack against the unconcios guy, not a Coup De Grace. Is there any rules that can help to stop the attack beside having a Prc Class?

Thank you again

 

[LazarusLong42]

The AoO occurs before the action that precipitated it; thus the tripped character would fall 10 feet from the chain-fighter.

 

[hong]

Please disregard my question about the charge action. An attack of opportunity is of course triggered even during the charge.

My question regarding the trip attack is: if tripped while moving from 10' to 5 as result of Aoo', in which square the tripped character falls? In 10' square or 5' square?

The AoO is taken after the provoking action is initiated, but before it's resolved. Hence if you're tripped in the process of moving from 10' to 5', you fall down 10' from the person who tripped you.

Helping the poor unconcious guy is by giving him a combination of cover (+4 AC and aid (if successful +2 AC). I'm talking now about a regular attack against the unconcios guy, not a Coup De Grace. Is there any rules that can help to stop the attack beside having a Prc Class?

Bull rush the attacker away? Disarm or sunder their weapon? These are the only things I can think of.

 

[swrushing]

For the covering the helpless guy thing...

If you have another person of same size between you who is just there and not trying to stop you its half cover.

In this case, the guy in between is deliberately trying to get in the way and the protected guy is not moving, so a GM might well decide this is more than the first case. There is no rule directly dealing with this case. So the Gm will have to decide for himself how to handle it. Some options include:

1. Just say "the heck with it" and pretend its the normal case and say "half cover". Aid other and unfavorable circumsances may creep in.

2. Decide the downed guy has total cover and so you cannot attack him. This might be very easy to see if say a normal guy is covering a halfling. (heck you might just decide its "improved cover" as well.)

3. Maybe make the covering guy make a reflex save or dex check to "intercept" the attack against the helpless guy.

4. Finally, and possibly the most reasonable, decide that while the "helpless" character is not moving, the presence of someone between you actively trying to prevent you from taking adavatage is enough to make the "helpless" guy be treated normally and not as helpless. he is still not moving and such but you cannot get the clean shot you normally would. Apply the half cover and the defender's Dex bonus instead of the helpless guy's dex penalty.

Either way, there is no predefined maneuver for "interposing" so the Gm will need to decide it on his own.

 

[Darklone]

I would allow to use fighting defensively but give the extra dodge bonus as cover to the helpless person.