Timmy, Johnny, Spike, and Vorthos

What type of D&D player are you?

  • Johnny

    Votes: 55 63.2%
  • Spike

    Votes: 13 14.9%
  • Timmy

    Votes: 29 33.3%
  • Vorthos

    Votes: 26 29.9%

Mokona

First Post
Mark Rosewater classified Magic: The Gathering players into three categories or motivations. The awesome Matt Cavotta added Vorthos. Based on the popularity of the Timmy-Johnny-Spike theory, the head of Magic: The Gathering design revisited the concept again.

Theories like this can prove very useful when designing a game, like D&D Next, because they help you identify differences in players where you need to do specific things for each segment in order to keep all groups playing your game.

I think Mark was too narrow-minded in his revisit article so I'll include Vorthos.

Timmy - players who prefer heroic action with a slight emphasis on gamist elements (such as big numbers aka my character looks powerful on paper).

Johnny - players who create complicated and unique characters that play against stereotype or mix wildly divergent mechanics to achieve a certain vision. Slight preference for narrativist elements.

Spike - players to min/max in the extreme and create bullet characters with a sense of "winning" at the table. Slight preference for simulationist rules (because they can argue to have the rules bent to their advantage).

Vorthos - players who could care less about rules. They write long, involved backgrounds or care primarily about getting the perfect miniature or the ultimate illustration of their character. Strong preference for narrativist style but probably don't care what style of rules are used. The most system-neutral player.

These players do not map 1:1 to the GNS Theory (gamist, narrativist, & simulationist). Can one game fit these play styles simultaneously? I think D&D has done so since 1974 so I believe it can continue to do so. Sometimes it did a better job at accommodating all styles than other times.

Notes:

Good polls and well formulated market research are difficult. Why force people to make either-or choices when they might answer "all of it"? By making respondents differentiate you get stronger signals that are more useful in analysis. Let me state, for the record, that I believe everyone has a little bit of each and all of the three styles in their life.

Also, I do not believe that GNS Theory is perfect or complete. The GNS designations have just as many flaws as the Timmy-Johnny-Spike-Vorthos model. Nevertheless, both provide useful data.

Further, each respondent will interpret the labels differently. That is not a problem. If Wizards of the Coast R&D ever uses this data they'll have their own understanding of the labels as well. It's better to get more data and additional poll responses than to argue definitions.

Take all four polls:

Butt-Kicker-Casual Gamer-Method Actor-Power Gamer-Specialist-Storyteller-Tactician poll
Character Actor-Power Gamer-Storyteller-Thinker poll
Gamist-Narrativist-Simulationist poll
Timmy-Johnny-Spike-Vorthos poll
 
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LurkAway

First Post
I picked Timmy (Johnny?) Vorthos but I get a different reading of what that means from your summary vs the "Timmy, Johnny, and Spike Revisited" article.

I think the poll results will reflect people's comprehension of the OP and/or the articles as much as what roleplaying type they actually are.
 



Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
These players do not map 1:1 to the GNS Theory (gamist, narrativist, & simulationist).

No, but I think they may fit WotC's Breakdown of RPG Players from the 1999 market survey somewhat better. It still isn't a 1:1 mapping, but it seems closer to this than to GNS.

And, yes, I think you can support them all simultaneously. It takes a bit of work, and players who are okay with sharing, and occasionally doing things for reasons other than their primary playstyle. Your rules-crunch gamer needs to be able to step back and do things because they are dramatically appropriate on occasion, and your immersion-story dude has to occasionally go through a rules-crunchy combat, and so on. Sometimes, it may pay to have a group of more matching playstyles, but with cooperative people, mixing and matching can be done.
 
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Marius Delphus

Adventurer
I picked "Timmy" even though I'm not 100% "in" any of these categories -- or rather, to some degree I'm in all of them. Primarily Timmy, with elements (or moments) of all the others, I guess.
 

Hassassin

First Post
No, but I think they may fit WotC's Breakdown of RPG Players from the 1999 market survey somewhat better. It still isn't a 1:1 mapping, but it seems closer to this than to GNS.

I don't think the Rosewater archetypes map well at all into D&D. Why not use the categories WotC came up with for roleplayers instead of trying to kludge people into the categories they made for Magic players?

They match quite well:

Johnny = Thinker
Timmy = Character Actor
Spike = Power Gamer
Vorthos = Storyteller

In D&D I'm mostly Johnny-Vorthos, with a healthy dose of Timmy. In MTG I'm a Johnny-Spike.
 


Aeolius

Adventurer
What does MGT have to do with roleplaying games?

"We don' need no steeking card games" - TSRO Aeo (spoken in the days before WotC bought TSR) ;)

I prefer combat-light and roleplay-heavy, with an emphasis on story over stats. I enjoy DMing entire sessions on-the-fly, spending hours having NPCs banter with PCs, and creating new treasures, magics, monsters, and magics. I'm not sure entirely where that puts me, in the grand scheme of things.
 

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