Tinkering with Massive Damage

[Galethorn]

So, I was thinking about massive damage, and some ways to, well, tinker with it, and what the modifications would do...

First of all, how about we divide up the concept into three parts...

The Cause (the comdition(s) that prompts the save)
The Resolution (the save agaist the effect)
The Effect (what happens when the save is failed)

So, for the purpose of this discussion, 'normalcy' for each part will be what I consider to be 'default' for Grim Tales: Cause: Damage ≥ con score; Resolution: Fortitude save vs. DC 15; Effect: Reduced to -1 hit points and bleeding.

Oh, and let's leave the 'in the book' variants in GT (armor adds to threshold, etc.) out of this just for brevity's sake.

So far, I've come up with a few variants of the parts of the system...

"I'm Wounded!"
Effect: Disabled as if at 0 hp (can only take one standard action or one move action per round; strenuous activity deals 1 damage to you), but HP doesn't actually 'artificially' drop

Variable Save DC [Gleaned from HeapThaumaturgist]
Resolution: Save DC is equal to 10 + (damage / 2)

"Ambush!" [more complete version of what I gleaned from HeapThaumaturgist]
Cause: All damage dealt to flat-footed opponents, or otherwise during a surprise round, prompts a save, as well as damage ≥ con score
Resolution: Save DC is equal to 10 + (damage / 2)

So, what do you various posters think about this, and what other sorts of modifications have you guys made? What do you think the implications would be for each one?

 

[Galethorn]

BUMP! Bump I say!

Isn't anybody interested? Anyone at all?

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Huh. I thought I made a long, eloquent post on this thread.

I'll come back and re-post when I remember what I said. Although, if you search a bit, you can find several posts by me, Glassjaw, Old One, Wulf, and others that touch on this topic.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Hrm, a few notes from my own gameplay:

In "Ambush!" style games: If you're using a static save, use a lower static save for flatfooted rolls unless you like quite-lethal games. If you're using a variable DC game, watch that the "style" of game makes these DCs rather low. For myself, most people able to strike from surprise are not carrying very large weapons, and so the average DC is 11-13. If you're using a D&D style game where PCs are getting whapped by dragons and ogres, this can get lethal REAL FAST.

For games that have Variable DCs: Anything that will artificially raise the MDT will also raise the DC. If characters are walking around with +6 armor bonuses, the damage needed to force an MDT will also rise. With Light armor, this isn't a huge deal, which is the sort of game I'm using it with. NONE of the PCs in that game wear anything heavier than Studded Leather. In a fantasy game with, say, dwarves in heavy armor: A dwarf with 18 Con and Full Plate will have an effective MDT of 26. With DC equal to 10+1/2Dmg that's a BEGINING DC of 23. If you're using heavy armors, I'd say something like 1/4 damage might be appropriate, to keep those saves workable.

I'd almost say: If you're having a LESS PULPY game, where people will have high Con and heavy armor and FDH, it might be better to use two DCs. DC 10 for Ambush and DC 15 for other MDTs. The difference between PCs with variable systems in situations like that can get really big, so that brings the variance in line. In a game where everybody has 25-28pt.-buy and Heavy armor is generally frowned upon, you can keep the MDThreshold managable and a variable DC will serve to add a sense of danger. People striking from surprise is a sweaty situation, and people who get shot can go down HARD.

--fje

 

[Galethorn]

Hmmm...very interesting.

The 10-for-flat-footed/15-for-threshold one sounds like it would work well for the new campaign I've started (and haven't gotten far enough into to for my less-than-rules-lawyerish players to have any adverse reaction to the change)...basically, the characters are mostly lightly armored, and they fight human(oids) about 3/4 of the time, but there are and will be larger things to smash/bite/otherwise maim them.

Now, the real question is...what about my "I'm wounded!" variant? It seems like it would go well with a higher (or variable?) DC, and would make combat less deadly but still a LOT more dramatic than whittling each other's HP down ala D&D.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

IMC I didn't mess with MDT (at least not when it came to ambushes) but I give a +4 bonus to the attacker if the defender is surprised.

The attacker might still have trouble dishing out 10 damage when ambushing.