tiny race?
- Thread starter goldzero
- Start date
As i see it, you have 2 solid options:
1. Arcana Evolved has a race called "QUICKLING FAEN" with racial levels that eventually turn it from small to tiny (you'll need to tweak it a bit to adapt it to the core rules, I guess).
2. A quicker route would be to look into my house rules and take a peek at my idea of what a Fairy race (post #8, Appendix C) should look like (if you don't use it, at least it can be something to build on).
1. Arcana Evolved has a race called "QUICKLING FAEN" with racial levels that eventually turn it from small to tiny (you'll need to tweak it a bit to adapt it to the core rules, I guess).
2. A quicker route would be to look into my house rules and take a peek at my idea of what a Fairy race (post #8, Appendix C) should look like (if you don't use it, at least it can be something to build on).
Theo R Cwithin
I cast "Baconstorm!"
"Savage Species" has monster classes for pixies, grigs and imps, maybe a couple others. None of them gain flight before 3rd level or so, though. Grigs have very low HD, and all the fey STRs are quite low; the imp's str doesn't seem to have a penalty.
Ahnehnois
First Post
Not to be a party pooper, but flight is worth a level adjustment, and tiny size without a big strength penalty is also quite advantageous. I'd suggest a pixie or similar fey, or you could apply the winged template to something, but in these cases you'd end up with a significant LA.
Celebrim
Legend
Both flight and tiny are normally worth a level adjustment in and of themselves. So if you had a tiny winged race with no other penalties or bonuses, that would normally be +2 LA right there.
Tiny normally means a -8 STR and CON penalty, offset by a +4 DEX bonus. That might just bring Tiny into line, but you still can play a quite powerful sorcerer or wizard with that as you are essentially getting +4 to AC and the strength penalty is meaningless.
Tiny normally means a -8 STR and CON penalty, offset by a +4 DEX bonus. That might just bring Tiny into line, but you still can play a quite powerful sorcerer or wizard with that as you are essentially getting +4 to AC and the strength penalty is meaningless.
Nyeshet
First Post
LA buyoff?
What is worth level adjustment at lower levels is rarely worth it at higher levels. 3.5e dealt with this via level adjustment buy off - effectively the player would have to take a level over again at (if I recall correctly) 4th, 8th, and 12th level to remove 3 levels of level adjustment. Thus upon achieving 4th level, they do not gain a level and instead have their xp for that level removed and their LA reduced by 1. If they only have LA +1, they are now LA +0. If they have LA +2, they now have LA +1. This affects the level used to determine how much xp they get per encounter, among other things. Recall, however, that in many cases the developers purposefully added an additional level of LA to races they wanted to discourage. So for the pixie, for example, you could remove 1 level of LA (making it LA +3, IIRC) and it would still be a fair balance with the rest of the party. Otherwise the player will fall further and further behind the rest of the party over time.
Another idea is a gradation of traits over more than one level. This is what occurs in AU: the fey like race at first cannot fly, but as I recall has a level where it gains gliding, then another level where it gains true flight. In this case, the player might start out with, say, slow fall (any distance (due to wings)), Dex +4, Str -4, Con -2. Upon the next level they gain gliding, and their Con penalty vanishes. A third level brings flight and a slight decrease to the Str penalty (to -2). Perhaps a further level could bring better maneuverability in flight and either a final lose of Str penalty?
That would have used up four levels as racial levels while gradually gaining both good flight and a loss of the Con and Str penalty. Not sure about the balance of this suggestion, but I think it comes close. Losing four levels in a class will put them notably behind while also granting notable advantages in flight and a Dex bonus as well as the other benefits of tiny size. On the other hand, the Pixie and Doppleganger are LA +4 and grant some SU abilities as well. Perhaps it should be spread over 3 levels instead?
In any case, do these ideas help out any?
What is worth level adjustment at lower levels is rarely worth it at higher levels. 3.5e dealt with this via level adjustment buy off - effectively the player would have to take a level over again at (if I recall correctly) 4th, 8th, and 12th level to remove 3 levels of level adjustment. Thus upon achieving 4th level, they do not gain a level and instead have their xp for that level removed and their LA reduced by 1. If they only have LA +1, they are now LA +0. If they have LA +2, they now have LA +1. This affects the level used to determine how much xp they get per encounter, among other things. Recall, however, that in many cases the developers purposefully added an additional level of LA to races they wanted to discourage. So for the pixie, for example, you could remove 1 level of LA (making it LA +3, IIRC) and it would still be a fair balance with the rest of the party. Otherwise the player will fall further and further behind the rest of the party over time.
Another idea is a gradation of traits over more than one level. This is what occurs in AU: the fey like race at first cannot fly, but as I recall has a level where it gains gliding, then another level where it gains true flight. In this case, the player might start out with, say, slow fall (any distance (due to wings)), Dex +4, Str -4, Con -2. Upon the next level they gain gliding, and their Con penalty vanishes. A third level brings flight and a slight decrease to the Str penalty (to -2). Perhaps a further level could bring better maneuverability in flight and either a final lose of Str penalty?
That would have used up four levels as racial levels while gradually gaining both good flight and a loss of the Con and Str penalty. Not sure about the balance of this suggestion, but I think it comes close. Losing four levels in a class will put them notably behind while also granting notable advantages in flight and a Dex bonus as well as the other benefits of tiny size. On the other hand, the Pixie and Doppleganger are LA +4 and grant some SU abilities as well. Perhaps it should be spread over 3 levels instead?
In any case, do these ideas help out any?
The winged template in Savage Species is a +2LA, but also gives +4Dex and +2Wis. I believe you can find a "Small" or similar template in Goodman Games' The Book of Templates, Green Ronin's Advanced Bestiary or a similar work.
Playing off of nonsi256's post, if you look at AU/AE, you'll see that Monte Cook altered the SS monster race classes to make his racial classes, which have the full suite of HD, BAB and similar benefits. You could easily do the same with any templates, letting her PC gain the benefits over time.
Although...you'd probably want to start off with a race that already has one or the other qualities already.
Mephlings (Planar Handbook) are Small, and some have Flight, for instance.
Playing off of nonsi256's post, if you look at AU/AE, you'll see that Monte Cook altered the SS monster race classes to make his racial classes, which have the full suite of HD, BAB and similar benefits. You could easily do the same with any templates, letting her PC gain the benefits over time.
Although...you'd probably want to start off with a race that already has one or the other qualities already.
Mephlings (Planar Handbook) are Small, and some have Flight, for instance.
