To balance high level mages.

[hong]

At high level it all depends on teh gear the Fighter has, IMO, since the Wizard can protect himself pretty well with multiple extended spells (in effect always on). The Fighter HAS to be able to Fly, See Invisible (True Seeing is better as mentioned above), and HAS to rely on finding their items....the Wizard just has to make his.

Any high-level character who can't fly, teleport and see invisible is an idiot. (As for having to find equipment rather than making/buying it: that's what item creating party members, cohorts or NPCs are for.)

 

[Broken Fang]

Agreed...but since this long dead topic has been revived (before today the last post a month ago)...when does a high level Fighter really become a high level Magic User with more HP's? Like Apoptosis said...which I had said earlier...which probably someone else had also said even before that.

 

[LostSoul]

So I ask again:

Is D&D outside of the dungeon broken?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!111?!

 

[apoptosis]

Any high-level character who can't fly, teleport and see invisible is an idiot. (As for having to find equipment rather than making/buying it: that's what item creating party members, cohorts or NPCs are for.)

One of the reasons why i pretty much dont particularly like to play standard high level D&D. If every character can basically do the same thing, why bother with classes at high level at all.

Maybe we should find a certain high level cutoff and at that level everyone prestiges into the ONE CLASS,
(I am joking..i know that is not really a fair argument).

But it is unfortunate that you can just throw enough equipment on a fighter and he basically becomes a wizard. Kinda defeats the purpose of having classes.

Apoptosis

 

[hong]

One of the reasons why i pretty much dont particularly like to play standard high level D&D. If every character can basically do the same thing, why bother with classes at high level at all.

When you come right down to it, combat in D&D consists of exactly one thing: inflicting enough damage on someone so that they die. Clearly since every class can inflict enough damage to achieve this end, this means they are all identical.

 

[drnuncheon]

He then goes for a Maximised Time Stop (using Rod of GM). Otto's Irresistable Dance, two Maximised Meteor Storms and two Maximised Cones of Cold continues the barrage nicely.

Of course, that's assuming that a) the wizard goes for straight barrage and b) the fighter wins initiative. A better alternative is simply Mordenkainen's Disjunction, Maximised Time Stop. Quickened True Strike, Maximised Energy Drain x2; Quickened True Strike, Maximised Enervation. Twenty negative levels and *poof* goes the fighter.

"While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells"

So, neither of these tactics would work, because MS, CoC, Energy Drain, and Enervation are all instantaneous spells.

The description of time stop does go on to say you can create spell effects and leave them to take effect when the time stop ends, but that refers specifically to effects with a duration (such as wall of fire) and not instantaneous spells.

J

 

[apoptosis]

When you come right down to it, combat in D&D consists of exactly one thing: inflicting enough damage on someone so that they die. Clearly since every class can inflict enough damage to achieve this end, this means they are all identical.

Not quite the same argument that I made.

If class distinction is important and fundamental to the game, then having a game such that a character can possess enough items so that the distinction becomes meaningless seems to destroy one of the putative game fundamentals.

If class distinction is not important, then just get rid of it and go with a classless system.

[I am obviously extending my argument to a pretty extreme situation]

Apop

 

[hong]

Not quite the same argument that I made.

If class distinction is important and fundamental to the game, then having a game such that a character can possess enough items so that the distinction becomes meaningless seems to destroy one of the putative game fundamentals.

Anyone who thinks that all wizards do is fly, teleport and see invisible is an idiot.

 

[apoptosis]

Anyone who thinks that all wizards do is fly, teleport and see invisible is an idiot.

hmmm...... since you arent quite understanding the gist of the discussion then it is pointless for me to continue it...


apop

 

[Plane Sailing]

It seems bizarre to me that several posters here are apparently under the impression that high level characters don't have magic items - or that wizards do but fighters don't.

How strange.