To Class or not to Class...

[Iota]

What do you think? Do you prefer systems that give players the option of picking a pre-conceived Class that they can tweak and personalize...or systems that provide a wide range of skills, talents, feats, powers, spells, etc. that you can pick-and-choose to create your own completely customized character? What's the best way to reach a balance between lots of options and ease of play?

 

[nedjer]

I spot a fence over there - think I'll go sit on it. Both are good

 

[Smoss]

I prefer classless - I crafted my own current RPG system without classes.

The main downsides are "player choice paralyzation" and the fact that if you usually have to take a lot more time on the character creation process. I tried to mitigate that some by following the example set by Shadowrun - Which had a few premade characters already finished that people could use to jump right in or as a baseline to tweak from.

I really, REALLY wish I had some mad computer skills so I could program a character builder type program for my system. Would make things a lot easier for the players. Of course, that time investment only happens once, at the beginning - Unless there is a character death or a want to make a new character, etc.
Smoss

-Edit...

Also, I designed my own classless system so that I could finally have a truly balanced system. People who think classless systems are made for cherry picking have not dealt with a system designed to avoid such things (Long xp with 3e multi-classing quirks told me to be wary). Also not a big fan of levels either, but that is another subject...

 

[Dice4Hire]

I think it is far harder to balance a classless system and thus there are far greater chances for optimization. Add in a bit of people doubling or trebling up on good choices and it can be a pain.

On the other hand classless can be nice, if balanced and allows enough variety in building.

I like M&M for its versatility, but I hated it for the cheesy optimization it allowed. Plus some things (impervious, anyone) were just a plain must-have abilities.

Taht said, if I would find a very good Fantasy RPG classless system, I would like to try it out.

 

[Umbran]

I spot a fence over there - think I'll go sit on it. Both are good

Yep. I've played and enjoyed games of both types. Both have strengths and weaknesses, and impacts upon game flavor.

Whether I want one or the other for a particular campaign depends on what I'm hoping to do with the game.

 

[DragonLancer]

I prefer class systems myself. The player can focus on what that class can do and not be sidelined because something else catches their eye.

 

[onedtwelve]

In my experience, classless=mage wins every time; however, that isn't necessarily always true.

I've always preferred classless for the customization, since many of the workarounds for multiclassing in class-based systems don't really tickle my fancy. I like to have my barbarian know a spell or two or my wizard also know how to fight with a polearm, that kind of thing. I also like how much less thought goes into creating a character in a classless system since you always get all the options, there are often fewer options. In a class-based system, you have to look at all the classes and see which you like best, whereas in a classless system it's easier to say "I want to be this kind of mage. Done." In a class-based system it's more "I want to be this kind of mage. Well, this one is sort of like it, but so's this one. If I mix and match I can kind of have what I want."

I guess my argument is saying the opposite of what Smoss said. I've always had to take longer on class-based systems than on classless systems to make my characters; though, I do agree with Smoss that player choice paralyzation can be a problem. I think it's a problem more to do with rules-heavy v. rules-light systems rather than classless v. class-based; however, my experience has shown me that classless systems usually have fewer rules, which is probably why I take less time with them.

 

[nedjer]

Yep. I've played and enjoyed games of both types. Both have strengths and weaknesses, and impacts upon game flavor.

Whether I want one or the other for a particular campaign depends on what I'm hoping to do with the game.

I'm a bit spinny-head Regan on this. Used to have it that classes were cardboard cut-outs for beginners that straight-jacketed experienced players. Until I saw enough experienced players put their own indelible mark on a class-based character.

 

[bblackmoor]

Pros and cons

Historically, I have preferred customized characters over class-based characters. For a number of years, I chose not to play class-based games at all.

That being said, there are some real advantages to having characters restricted to specific classes. One of the biggest is that it helps the game designer and the GM. By reducing the variability of the PCs, it becomes much easier to present fun and interesting challenges that aren't too easy or too difficult. (Levels help with this, too.)

Bradd W. Szonye wrote an interesting article a while back on class based systems, that he allowed me to copy to RPG Library. He makes some good points about the merits of class-based characters:

FAQ: Why Bother With A Class System?

 

[Zhaleskra]

I lean more toward classless. Two games, d20 Modern and HARP, which while classed have made me ask "if your class isn't that important, why have them at all?" On the other hand, I see the "jump in" benefit of more tightly defined classes.