To James Jacobs: A Growing Problem with Dungeon Magazine

[BryonD]

The last thing I want is an adventure that's ususable because the climactic battle hinges on the Evil Sorcerer's tactic of casting Invert Metabolic Fluid from the Completely Arcane Book of Unearthed Dragons or whatever the latest "must-have" WoTC supplement is.

I think that is a pretty silly concern since the standard has always been to provide all the relevant details for any non-core item. If they use a Complete Warrior feat, they reprint the feat right there for you. It seems quite obvious if they did a spell, they'd print that also.

But, it doesn't really matter to me because the idea of being stuck with something just cause it is written in Dungeon is unthinkable. I'm more likely to take one character spark or plot detail (or map, gotta love maps) and re-build the other 90%+ around that. So changing one spell either from or back into core wouldn't even be a moments pause.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Maybe its pedantic to clarify this way, but I don't think this is so much a policy intended to limit spells to the Core rules, so much as it is a hard limit on space on the paper. There is a policy that if something isn't in the Core rules it must be reprinted. An uncommonly used addendum allows non-Core spells as long as it is printed what the DM should substitute from the Core rules if the sourcebook isn't available. Otherwise it needs to be reprinted in the issue.

I'm pretty sure they (the Dungeon editors) balance the niftyness of new spells with the word count devoted to the adventure. With each new spell, adventures get shortened.

The same with feats.

The same with monsters.

 

[Steel_Wind]

Here's a potential explanation for Dungeon's policy of sticking to "core" material most of the time. Every time they include something from a non-core source, they have to type up a stat-block for it for those who don't have that sourcebook (rather than just saying, "see Monster Manual, p. 68"). So, every tidbit that gets added from non-core sources means a reduction in the amount of space available for the description of the plot/areas/antagonists that are part of the adventure. And, at the end of the day, Dungeon is about adventures, not stat-blocks.

The point was to include the Spell Compendium as an assumed "core" book - so that they would not have to retype the stat block for the spell.

In other words - you would have to go buy the book if you have not done so already. No stat block re-typing involved.

 

[Steel_Wind]

Maybe its pedantic to clarify this way, but I don't think this is so much a policy intended to limit spells to the Core rules, so much as it is a hard limit on space on the paper. There is a policy that if something isn't in the Core rules it must be reprinted.

The same with feats.

The same with monsters.

And that's the policy under discussion. It isn't about changing the policy -it is about expanding the underlying assumption about what is "core" and what isn't.

I suggest expanding the definition of "core" by one book - or (option 2) by three books.

 

[greywulf]

I don't think comparing that to Completely Arcane Book of Unearthed Dragons is at all relevant or fair.

The problem is that's what will happen. If an adventure designer can use cool spells they will, and loop them into the plot. Ain't nothing wrong with that of course, but it does mean that one adventure in that issue of Dungeon is likely to be unused by the majority of readers. Not fun.

So saying, I'd love to see classes from other books being put to use, but only if all the information to actually play the game is there, much as it is for monsters from sources other than MMI.

I agree that sidebar options would be the way to go. Personally, I'd like to see more information about tactics in adventures (including spell selection) which also covers monsters moving to different rooms.

For example, "Wizzbang the Wizard will shriek, cast Fireball through the doorway then flee to hide behind the Ogre in area 4 unless the party......." That's of more use to me, and breaks up the room-by-room nature of dungeons.

 

[BSF]

The point was to include the Spell Compendium as an assumed "core" book - so that they would not have to retype the stat block for the spell.

In other words - you would have to go buy the book if you have not done so already. No stat block re-typing involved.

And that is why it would basically be a no-sell to several people. Believe it or not, there are quite a few people out there that only use Core rules. As well, there is a group of people that does not purchase everything that WotC releases.

There are several products released by WotC that I don't purchase, including a few of the "Complete" books, the PHB II, FF, MM III, MMIV, Spell Compendium, etc. There are just so many other third party products I would rather purchase that I haven't gotten around to the WotC releases. Inlcude a non-core spell without supplying the detail in Dungeon and the adventure becomes less useful to me.

 

[satori01]

The problem is that's what will happen. If an adventure designer can use cool spells they will, and loop them into the plot.

Just because a NPC cleric might have say the spell Close Wounds on his spell list, does not invalidate the adventure. Likewise a Wizard with Combust, or Druid with Infestation of Maggots prepared is not going to kill the stat block.

The key question is who is going to have to do the work here. Should those that want spells found in Spell Compendium, have to go through the stat blocks and customize, or should you allow the contributors to the magazine use Spell Compendium, and those that do not recognize a spell from it replace it with a spell they do.

 

[Endur]

Here's a potential explanation for Dungeon's policy of sticking to "core" material most of the time. Every time they include something from a non-core source, they have to type up a stat-block for it for those who don't have that sourcebook (rather than just saying, "see Monster Manual, p. 68"). So, every tidbit that gets added from non-core sources means a reduction in the amount of space available for the description of the plot/areas/antagonists that are part of the adventure. And, at the end of the day, Dungeon is about adventures, not stat-blocks.

I agree 100%

 

[Darkwolf445]

The point was to include the Spell Compendium as an assumed "core" book - so that they would not have to retype the stat block for the spell.

In other words - you would have to go buy the book if you have not done so already. No stat block re-typing involved.

Some of us like the core definition as it stands. It is balanced. Once you start adding in non-core books as core, the balance is gone. It is easier to swap out a core spell for one that you want, than it is to swap a non-core spell from a book you may not have, nor want.

I do understand your position, but in all honesty, most of the work is already done for you.

 

[Crothian]

Option 1) Add only the Spell Compendium

That would be so awesome!!!