*snicker* now for that, I would kill a pc as well, but more to the point, thats the kind of thing I try to discourage through out of game conversation as well. Back to making a character you cn play without making the rest of us crazy... no loners, no obstructionists, no obstructing the main storyline by going off on your own. I try to screen and discourage those from the begining, rather than having to hold them in line with death.
I guess I don't because I don't feel right about it if the only thing to discourage rash actions is "the voice of the narrator." I'd rather let them put their hand on the stove.
I think I just figured it out - I'm a graduate of the Ken Titus school of DM'ing! (anyone who used to watch the Fox comedy show Titus will know what I'm talking about.)
MOM: "No, honey, DON'T..."
DAD: "Ah-Ah-AH, Juanita... (smiling) Go ahead, boy, stick the fork in the socket..." ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!
DAD: "see there? Now that you know, you won't do it again, will you?"
I'm probably not that bad, but I do know my players haven't tried for an umber hulk trophy for a long time, now.)
Edit: Sorry, I somehow missed a big part of your answer. See, I misunderstood you saying you'd tell them whether they'd "win" an encounter that if they're trying to save a prisoner, then they'd succeed in saving the prisoner, because that, to me, would be the description of winning that encounter.
Obviously, you only tell your players whether they'd be likely to die in a combat, not whether they're likely to succeed with additional goals they might have during an encounter. That is a genuine misunderstanding.
And it was nearly another one, before I edited this post
OK, I see where you are coming from. Unfortunately, there have been other posts in this thread that asked more sincearly the question you seemed to be asking, and the one I responded to...
I give my players/characters an idea of what encounters they should look at in terms of winning/defeating and which they should look at in terms of surviving. But just because this is a encounter they should be trying to defeat doesn't mean they will - any of the above meantioned failure conditions may come into play, primarily a lack of defeating their foe and thus a lack of whatever personal or strategic gain they were hoping for in the encounter.
To try to give an example of where I'm coing from, I've been catching up on older seasons of Stargate on DVD. The episodes are new to me, I don't know how they are going to end or what will happen. However, I have seen the current season and caught odd reruns, so what I do know is that SG1 will survive. Daniel dies at one point, but I already know he acends so its not all bad. Anyone else who looks like they're dead is either not really or will be stuck in a sarcophagas so relax. They will live, that drama is entirely my own willing suspension of disbelief.
However, I don't know if they will succeed. They do fail on occasion - their allies are destroyed and they barely save themselves, their enemy outsmarts them, their diplomatic attempts fall flat, their allies abandon them or potential new allies turn out to be unsuitable. I want to know what will happen, if the villains will get their just desserts or return to plague us and when someone will finally bitch slap senator Kinsey.
WOO HOO! now all the pres has to do is apoint hammond in his place and we can all do the 'you suck dance' on that pompous fool's face!
When I run a game, I'd like it to be like a good series like that, where the PCs are the title characters. There is drama, there is challange, its definitly worth tuning in for and being a part of, but underneath the willing suspension of disbelief is the knowlege that no one whose name apears in the opening credits is going to die some pointless 'red shirt' death to let us know scarey traps and insta kill spells are out there. If they do die it is going to be a Big Deal (tm) that will either lead to a way of coming back that changes the plot and enhances the character, or it is at the end of their story arc and the 'actor' is ok with the retirement.
This won't work for many people. thats ok. But I enjoy those games the same way I enjoy a series that I know the later cast of. I enjoy them both as a player and a dm.
Finally, I'd just like to meantion that I've been part of campaigns where life and death hung constantly in the balance but the overall success of the mission (which was assigned rather than chosen ) was never in doubt. And I'd much rather know I was going to live but might have to live with failure.
When I run a game, I'd like it to be like a good series like that, where the PCs are the title characters. There is drama, there is challange, its definitly worth tuning in for and being a part of, but underneath the willing suspension of disbelief is the knowlege that no one whose name apears in the opening credits is going to die some pointless 'red shirt' death to let us know scarey traps and insta kill spells are out there.
Very cool analogy. Never looked at it like that. I still don't know it would be all right with me, but it seemy my past experiences with "undying" campaigns have colored my perceptions a bit.
Finally, I'd just like to meantion that I've been part of campaigns where life and death hung constantly in the balance but the overall success of the mission (which was assigned rather than chosen ) was never in doubt. And I'd much rather know I was going to live but might have to live with failure.
When I run a game, I'd like it to be like a good series like that, where the PCs are the title characters. There is drama, there is challange, its definitly worth tuning in for and being a part of, but underneath the willing suspension of disbelief is the knowlege that no one whose name apears in the opening credits is going to die some pointless 'red shirt' death to let us know scarey traps and insta kill spells are out there.
Well my views are that Death can happen. But its not going to be to a bodak that you would have no clue of its death gaze ability without metagaming. Its not going to be to a weak minion that got lucky. Death is going to have a meaning, and unless the character does something stupid is only likely to happen in the big important tough encounters. I also plan on being generous in finding a cleric that can raise the character if they died, as long as it wasn't through stupidity.
This is all the views of a fledgeling dm, who's views may change through experience.
I try to screen and discourage those from the begining, rather than having to hold them in line with death.
) was never in doubt. And I'd much rather know I was going to live but might have to live with failure.
