To Reimburse or Not to Reimburse?

[FireLance]

Is it just me or wasn't 4e supposed to get RID of the Christmas Tree Effect? All this talk about Wish Lists sure makes it sound like Christmas to me.

How is this any better, or even different?

WotC promised a smaller Christmas tree (a "Charlie Brown" Christmas tree), not that the Christmas tree would be removed. This is one of the more common misconceptions.

A DM who doesn't want to give out a lot of magic items can simply give each PC three appropriately-levelled items (one weapon/implement, one suit of armor, and one neck slot item) every five levels, and can still expect that the PCs will be able to handle level-appropriate challenges. The PCs will still be less powerful than PCs with "standard" levels of wealth, but not excessively so. Alternatively, the DM could just give out inherent bonuses (described in DMG2) and no items at all.

Wish lists (another commonly misunderstood tool) are simply a formal way for the players to tell the DM what magic items they want. The choice of which magic items to give out, and whether or not to give out magic items in the first place, still rests with the DM.

 

[Dausuul]

Wish lists (another commonly misunderstood tool) are simply a formal way for the players to tell the DM what magic items they want. The choice of which magic items to give out, and whether or not to give out magic items in the first place, still rests with the DM.

I'm not sure where the misunderstanding is. That's exactly what I thought wish lists were, and I hate 'em. They encourage an entitlement mentality in players, feed into the trend of treating magic items as fashion accessories, and put a little bit more distance between the player's point of view and the character's.

I believe that found magic items should be rare, exciting, and unpredictable. If a player finds exactly the item s/he wants in a treasure hoard, I want the reaction to be, "Wow, this is AWESOME!" rather than "Ah, cool, it's that item I asked for on my wish list."

As I said above - in my campaign, if there's a magic item you've just gotta have, that's why we have item creation rules. Or you can make the effort to locate and retrieve such an item in-game. Make a few History or Streetwise checks, role-play a few inquiries, and I'll have some helpful NPC point you to a short side-quest (a couple of encounters' worth) where you can get what you want.

But don't hand me a wish list.

 

[SkidAce]

I would suspect that as you watch your players and their characters you would have a good idea what they want for their rewards. Finding this out through play i.e. the fighter constantly complains in character how much he hates dragons...voila..anti-dragon armor shows up.

And I might add, it doesn't break beliveability, since they were on a quest in a castle owned by an ancient cult of dragon slayers.

I use "lists" by watching and listening to the game...but I don't want anyone handing me one.

 

[FireLance]

I'm not sure where the misunderstanding is. That's exactly what I thought wish lists were, and I hate 'em. They encourage an entitlement mentality in players, and feed into the trend of treating magic items as fashion accessories.

The misunderstanding that I see fairly often is that the DM must always give the PCs the items on the players' wish lists. While some (many?) DMs may choose to treat wish lists like that, there is no requirement that they do so.

I guess I have been quite fortunate as a DM since I have never encountered the so-called "entitlement mentality" in any of my players. In any case, I am usually quite happy to reward them for overcoming the challenges they face in my games. And if the reward is something that they actually want, I consider it a win-win for both sides.

As for treating magic items as fashion accessories, I don't really see why it is a problem, either. I guess it boils down to a personal preference issue.

 

[MoxieFu]

WotC promised a smaller Christmas tree (a "Charlie Brown" Christmas tree), not that the Christmas tree would be removed. This is one of the more common misconceptions.

A DM who doesn't want to give out a lot of magic items can simply give each PC three appropriately-levelled items (one weapon/implement, one suit of armor, and one neck slot item) every five levels, and can still expect that the PCs will be able to handle level-appropriate challenges. The PCs will still be less powerful than PCs with "standard" levels of wealth, but not excessively so. Alternatively, the DM could just give out inherent bonuses (described in DMG2) and no items at all.

Wish lists (another commonly misunderstood tool) are simply a formal way for the players to tell the DM what magic items they want. The choice of which magic items to give out, and whether or not to give out magic items in the first place, still rests with the DM.

Thanks Firelance. I was trying to find the blog where this was discussed by the designers way back before or shortly after 4e was released and my GoogleFu failed me. Do you or anyone else have links to this discussion?

If it was on a podcast then I didn't hear the original, only the discussion about it on text-based boards. I am on dial up snail-net and don't have the patience or bandwidth for streaming audio or video.

 

[FireLance]

Thanks Firelance. I was trying to find the blog where this was discussed by the designers way back before or shortly after 4e was released and my GoogleFu failed me. Do you or anyone else have links to this discussion?

You're welcome. I believe it was from a blog post by Logan Bonner which I can't find anymore. It is quoted in this thread, though (the link in the thread is apparently dead).

There was also a Design and Development article on Magic Item Slots which addressed it indirectly.

 

[Rakusia]

i play 3.5e and was wondering if i should go ahead and try 4e reading this thread was the decider. never. seems like theres a lot of stuff that is just not nessacery and just hokey. might pick up a dungeon master guide/player handbook to look it over but have no desire to play it. whats up with upgrading items and stuff? thats what a wizard in the city does... for the right price or maybe a favor or two