Toad Got Nerfed!

Red Baron · Jun 12, 2003

A few have mentioned swimming toads. Uh, them's frogs...

JEL · Jun 12, 2003

Red Baron said:
A few have mentioned swimming toads. Uh, them's frogs...

Actually, toads swim pretty well. Being amphibians, like frogs, they have to have water to breed.

Devilkiller · Jun 12, 2003

WotC Sensed My Guilt!

I'll admit that my sorcerer has a toad familiar. The DM laughed when I took it and said that I was just doing it for the extra hit points. I said that there were stylistic reasons too and struggled to come up with them. I even created a 2nd level spell called Psychedelic Venom to represent the hallucinogenic "toad licking" experience.

Now it seems I'll just be stuck with a familiar who has a move of 5 and no attacks. It kind of feels like I'm being punished rather than just nerfed, but I suppose maybe I deserve it? Of course I could take Polymorph and use it to give the toad a more useful form from time to time, but now that the duration will only be 1 minute per level that won't be so useful.

Oh well, I'd just shut up and take my medicine "like a man", but the cohort I just gained is a level lower because of the -2 to Leadership for having a familiar and my familiar is now semi-useless. That sort of hurts!

The toad, in all his useless glory, is too ingrained in the character's story now to even consider swapping him out, but does anybody have any ideas on how to make him even marginally useful to a party that already has a bat familiar in it for scouting?

Kalshane · Jun 12, 2003

Kai Lord said:
The downside is that evil Evokers will have fewer opportunities to stand defiantly against the party mage and say, "Do you know what happens to a toad when its struck by lightning?"

Sad thing is that line was written as an off-hand comment. Unfortunately it ended up being delivered through a mouthful of scenery.

Red Baron · Jun 12, 2003

JEL said:
Actually, toads swim pretty well. Being amphibians, like frogs, they have to have water to breed.

Fair enough -- some toads can swim reasonably well, although the distinction between "frog" and "toad" is one largely based on habitat and physiology (no chicken and egg arguments, here): both are technically amphibians, of course, but toads tend to live on land.

So, my point (which was intended to be off-handed and only half-serious in any case): Saying a toad should grant Swim bonuses or be sent to scout out a swimming dragon at the bottom of a lake is like saying you should get a similar bonus or use in a similar manner a dog familiar (if there were such a thing), since they can swim too, right?

Mercule · Jun 12, 2003

Zhure said:
Of course, my Sorcerer had the best hit points in the group, with his good CON, Toughness and Toad.

Whaddaya know! Our sorcerer had the best HP in the group, too. Of course, that was because he was a dwarven half-dragon (can you say 24 Con?).

dagger · Jun 12, 2003

I remeber the 1st edition toad, man that was like a punishment from the DM! HeHe

The title of this thread cracked me up, don't know why.

hong · Jun 12, 2003

drnuncheon said:
It's working game balance on the Magic: the Gathering theory. Put it out there, see what gets overused, and then take it away in the next edition.

Why WOTC doesn't have a cadre of in-house munchkins to test their stuff is beyond me. (I have to wonder...no 3e playtesters were abusive munchkins?)

I suspect that Living Greyhawk and other RPGA campaigns fill that function for them.

Shard O'Glase · Jun 12, 2003

Even with the +2 cpn I felt the toad was weak. Noramlly I wont take famialiars becuase I'm too lazy to deal with them. Still they changed the toad from a decent familair into a you are the worst powergamer in the history of the world if you take this familiar.

Yeah make something must not take, that's the new balance.

BiggusGeekus@Work · Jun 12, 2003

hong said:
I suspect that Living Greyhawk and other RPGA campaigns fill that function for them.

I'm prediciting a decine in that. There have been a lot of "leaks" the most notorious was the Epic Level Handbook worming its way on the internet months before publication. That was a pretty serous snafu and I've wondered since then about the role of the RPGA in this regard.

edit: and just to stay on topic - I never had a problem with the toad familiar. This game has three books of basic rules. Eliminating all traces of unbalance is a dream and +2 CON for arcane casters didn't exactly let anyone to beat up Tiaimat.