Croesus
Adventurer
GL and HSB: Thanks for the kind words. I apologize for pulling the post so quickly, but I finally got motivated to finish the rules for integrating Tokens with all the characters, and I’d really like some feedback on these. While my group has playtested the spellcasting changes fairly extensively (at least at lower levels), these other changes have barely been used.
Some quick background: These rules grew out of our frustration with the “x per day” spells and abilities paradigm of the current rules. We found our characters spending a significant amount of time resting, not adventuring. At the same time, we wanted a system that did not make spellcasters overpowered (an effect of many spell point systems), and did not create a lot of extra record keeping. After examining many ideas on these boards, our own version of an “encounter based” system was born.
Our house rules:
Three generic classes and simplified races.
No attacks of opportunity
No extra attacks (every character/creature gets one attack, adding its BAB to damage)
All characters and creatures gain a feat for every level and/or hit die
These house rules are not required to use this system. In fact, the rules I’ve posted to this thread include many elements my group doesn’t use (such as AoO’s).
Action Points (Tokens)
We use the terms action points and tokens interchangeably. Action points in this system refer to points that characters expend to perform certain actions – they are not the same as Hero Points and other such mechanisms. (Though many effects of those mechanisms are included in these rules.)
All character gain tokens based on character level. There is a feat to increase the number of tokens a character has available. Tokens default to recovering at one per full round action. There is a feat chain to decrease the recovery time to a free action.
Characters never have enough tokens. As you’ll see in the chart below, characters start with only four tokens at 1st level and max out at 28 tokens at 20th level. Even using Token Pool feats, a character can only add an average of one token per level (at the cost of ten feats).
Another key concept is the idea of Held tokens. Spending a token to cast magic missile is straightforward. However, if the same sorcerer cast mage armor, the token is Held so long as the spell is active, and Held tokens cannot be recovered. Thus every Held token reduces a character’s token pool. Keep too many buff spells or special abilities active at the same time, and you won’t have enough for other uses.
Characters are limited in the number of tokens which can be spent at any given time. The limit is 1/2 character level, rounded down, minimum one. This in effect matches the current spell progression for sorcerers. (A single level change in when spellcasters gain higher-level spells noticeable reduces the power of spellcasters, which helps keep them from overshadowing the other characters.)
The last limiting factor for tokens is actions. Most tokens are used with an immediate action, or as part of casting a spell (which has its own action cost). So even if a character has tokens available, he usually won’t be able to do everything he wants in the same round. One change we made (based on something I saw in a thread by Hong) is that immediate actions can still be taken when flat-footed. Otherwise, many uses would be negated just when they’re most needed – at the beginning of combat, when the enemy is going first.
Token Use
Tokens have three states: Free, Spent, Held.
Free tokens are available for use.
Spent tokens have been used and can be recovered.
Held tokens have been used, but cannot be recovered, as the effect they powered is still active.
We have found that using Pente stones or colored chips, such as in Axis and Allies, works very well. Free and Spent tokens are white, Held tokens are red. We use two containers, one for Free tokens, one for Spent and Held. When token is recovered, the player just moves a white token from the Spent pool to the Free pool. If a player casts a spell or uses an ability that Holds the token, he swaps white for red before moving it. When the token is no longer Held, the player swaps red for white.
Spellcasting
We use only one spellcasting class (sorcerer), a spontaneous caster that can learn spells from the cleric, druid, and wizard/sorcerer lists. If a spell is on more than one list, the sorcerer can learn it at the lowest spell level available. Characters get a lot of spells, but they also have to cover a lot of bases (blaster, healer, utility, diviner). We don’t find this to be unbalanced, as sorcerers still can only cast so many spells at any given time – it just affords them a lot more flexibility which, frankly, is more fun.
Spells cost a number of tokens equal to their spell level (cantrips are free). Adding metamagic adds to the spell level, so a 1st level sorcerer cannot cast a maximized magic missile spell.
As mentioned above, spells with a duration greater than instantaneous cause the tokens spent to be Held until the spell duration expires, it is dispelled or dismissed. Spells with a permanent duration are considered “problematic” and cause the tokens to Held until the caster rests for eight hours, which can be done only once per day. GM’s are free to designate any spells as problematic, so if you don’t want infinite healing or teleports, just make them “problematic”.
Feats
Most of the feats in the PHB are changed to require token use. Some are removed altogether, to be replaced by a more generic feat (for instance, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, and Lightning Reflexes became Resist, which uses tokens to directly affect a given save).
The intent is to allow characters to use their cool abilities, but not excessively. No more APAATT (All Power Attack All The Time). You can still grapple and trip, but not on every attack (at least, not for long). It also places limits on certain “really good” feats, like Whirlwind Attack, that now requires one token for each opponent attacked.
Some feats were changed to allow better scaling. For instance, the Skill Focus feat requires that tokens be spent when using the skill, but the character gains a +2 bonus for each token. Mid- and high-level characters will find these feats very useful, in specific situations – you might actually find people taking them now.
One strength of this system is that it relatively easy to add feats from other sources. For instance, we use the Divine feats from Complete Warrior. We just substitute tokens for turn attempts and use the feats as is. Similarly, many of the Draconic feats in Complete Arcane can be used in the same way.
Class Abilities
As we only use Fighter, Rogue, and Sorcerer classes, most class abilities (other than spellcasting) are not affected by tokens. The one exception is Sneak Attack, which requires a token to use in any given round. (I’m still not certain this is a good idea – rogues have enough problems using sneak attack effectively.) A rogue can spend more tokens to allow his sneak attack damage to affect creatures that are normally unaffected, but the cost is one + the number of dice to be added, which can use up a token pool in a hurry.
Other class abilities can easily be added. Rage, for instance, would require tokens, which would determine how much of a bonus the character receives. Similarly, most paladin and monk abilities would work well with tokens.
Turn/Rebuke Undead
Turn Undead has been thrown out. Instead characters with this ability (chosen as a feat) can channel positive or negative energy to damage or heal undead in a 40’ radius. The amount is equal to 1d6 per token spent, plus the character’s Cha Mod. Turn resistance subtracts directly from the damage taken (think of it as DR vs. turning damage). Improved Turning adds one to the character’s max spend rate for purposes of Turn/Rebuke only. The Sun domain (see below) increases the character’s max spend rate by 50%, only for purposes of Turn Undead.
Domains
Domains do not grant additional spells. Each domain grants one or more abilities related to the domain. Most such abilities require the expenditure of at least one token. Right now, only casters may take domains, but I’m not convinced this limitation is strictly necessary. Some interesting character concepts that don’t require spellcasting could make use of domains.
Token Pools
Level.....Token Pool.....Maximum Spend Rate
1......4.....1
2......5.....1
3......6.....1
4......8.....2
5......9.....2
6....10.....3
7....11.....3
8....13.....4
9....14.....4
10..15.....5
11..16.....5
12..18.....6
13..19.....6
14..20.....7
15..21.....7
16..23.....8
17..24.....8
18..25.....9
19..26.....9
20..28...10
Sorcerer Spells Known
Level.....0.....1st.....2nd.....3rd.....4th.....5th.....6th.....7th.....8th.....9th
1......5......3
2......6......4
3......7......5
4......8......6......3
5......9......7......4
6....10......8......5......3
7....11......9......6......4
8....12....10......7......5......3
9....13....11......8......6......4
10..14....12......9......7......5......3
11..15....13.....10......8......6......4
12..16....14.....11......9......7......5......3
13..17....15.....12....10......8......6......4
14..18....16.....13....11......9......7......5......3
15..19....17.....14....12....10......8......6......4
16..20....18.....15....13....11......9......7......5......3
17..21....19.....16....14....12....10......8......6......4
18..22....20.....17....15....13....11......9......7......5......3
19..23....21.....18....16....14....12....10......8......6......4
20..24....22.....19....17....15....13....11......9......7......5
Some quick background: These rules grew out of our frustration with the “x per day” spells and abilities paradigm of the current rules. We found our characters spending a significant amount of time resting, not adventuring. At the same time, we wanted a system that did not make spellcasters overpowered (an effect of many spell point systems), and did not create a lot of extra record keeping. After examining many ideas on these boards, our own version of an “encounter based” system was born.
Our house rules:
Three generic classes and simplified races.
No attacks of opportunity
No extra attacks (every character/creature gets one attack, adding its BAB to damage)
All characters and creatures gain a feat for every level and/or hit die
These house rules are not required to use this system. In fact, the rules I’ve posted to this thread include many elements my group doesn’t use (such as AoO’s).
Action Points (Tokens)
We use the terms action points and tokens interchangeably. Action points in this system refer to points that characters expend to perform certain actions – they are not the same as Hero Points and other such mechanisms. (Though many effects of those mechanisms are included in these rules.)
All character gain tokens based on character level. There is a feat to increase the number of tokens a character has available. Tokens default to recovering at one per full round action. There is a feat chain to decrease the recovery time to a free action.
Characters never have enough tokens. As you’ll see in the chart below, characters start with only four tokens at 1st level and max out at 28 tokens at 20th level. Even using Token Pool feats, a character can only add an average of one token per level (at the cost of ten feats).
Another key concept is the idea of Held tokens. Spending a token to cast magic missile is straightforward. However, if the same sorcerer cast mage armor, the token is Held so long as the spell is active, and Held tokens cannot be recovered. Thus every Held token reduces a character’s token pool. Keep too many buff spells or special abilities active at the same time, and you won’t have enough for other uses.
Characters are limited in the number of tokens which can be spent at any given time. The limit is 1/2 character level, rounded down, minimum one. This in effect matches the current spell progression for sorcerers. (A single level change in when spellcasters gain higher-level spells noticeable reduces the power of spellcasters, which helps keep them from overshadowing the other characters.)
The last limiting factor for tokens is actions. Most tokens are used with an immediate action, or as part of casting a spell (which has its own action cost). So even if a character has tokens available, he usually won’t be able to do everything he wants in the same round. One change we made (based on something I saw in a thread by Hong) is that immediate actions can still be taken when flat-footed. Otherwise, many uses would be negated just when they’re most needed – at the beginning of combat, when the enemy is going first.
Token Use
Tokens have three states: Free, Spent, Held.
Free tokens are available for use.
Spent tokens have been used and can be recovered.
Held tokens have been used, but cannot be recovered, as the effect they powered is still active.
We have found that using Pente stones or colored chips, such as in Axis and Allies, works very well. Free and Spent tokens are white, Held tokens are red. We use two containers, one for Free tokens, one for Spent and Held. When token is recovered, the player just moves a white token from the Spent pool to the Free pool. If a player casts a spell or uses an ability that Holds the token, he swaps white for red before moving it. When the token is no longer Held, the player swaps red for white.
Spellcasting
We use only one spellcasting class (sorcerer), a spontaneous caster that can learn spells from the cleric, druid, and wizard/sorcerer lists. If a spell is on more than one list, the sorcerer can learn it at the lowest spell level available. Characters get a lot of spells, but they also have to cover a lot of bases (blaster, healer, utility, diviner). We don’t find this to be unbalanced, as sorcerers still can only cast so many spells at any given time – it just affords them a lot more flexibility which, frankly, is more fun.
Spells cost a number of tokens equal to their spell level (cantrips are free). Adding metamagic adds to the spell level, so a 1st level sorcerer cannot cast a maximized magic missile spell.
As mentioned above, spells with a duration greater than instantaneous cause the tokens spent to be Held until the spell duration expires, it is dispelled or dismissed. Spells with a permanent duration are considered “problematic” and cause the tokens to Held until the caster rests for eight hours, which can be done only once per day. GM’s are free to designate any spells as problematic, so if you don’t want infinite healing or teleports, just make them “problematic”.
Feats
Most of the feats in the PHB are changed to require token use. Some are removed altogether, to be replaced by a more generic feat (for instance, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, and Lightning Reflexes became Resist, which uses tokens to directly affect a given save).
The intent is to allow characters to use their cool abilities, but not excessively. No more APAATT (All Power Attack All The Time). You can still grapple and trip, but not on every attack (at least, not for long). It also places limits on certain “really good” feats, like Whirlwind Attack, that now requires one token for each opponent attacked.
Some feats were changed to allow better scaling. For instance, the Skill Focus feat requires that tokens be spent when using the skill, but the character gains a +2 bonus for each token. Mid- and high-level characters will find these feats very useful, in specific situations – you might actually find people taking them now.
One strength of this system is that it relatively easy to add feats from other sources. For instance, we use the Divine feats from Complete Warrior. We just substitute tokens for turn attempts and use the feats as is. Similarly, many of the Draconic feats in Complete Arcane can be used in the same way.
Class Abilities
As we only use Fighter, Rogue, and Sorcerer classes, most class abilities (other than spellcasting) are not affected by tokens. The one exception is Sneak Attack, which requires a token to use in any given round. (I’m still not certain this is a good idea – rogues have enough problems using sneak attack effectively.) A rogue can spend more tokens to allow his sneak attack damage to affect creatures that are normally unaffected, but the cost is one + the number of dice to be added, which can use up a token pool in a hurry.
Other class abilities can easily be added. Rage, for instance, would require tokens, which would determine how much of a bonus the character receives. Similarly, most paladin and monk abilities would work well with tokens.
Turn/Rebuke Undead
Turn Undead has been thrown out. Instead characters with this ability (chosen as a feat) can channel positive or negative energy to damage or heal undead in a 40’ radius. The amount is equal to 1d6 per token spent, plus the character’s Cha Mod. Turn resistance subtracts directly from the damage taken (think of it as DR vs. turning damage). Improved Turning adds one to the character’s max spend rate for purposes of Turn/Rebuke only. The Sun domain (see below) increases the character’s max spend rate by 50%, only for purposes of Turn Undead.
Domains
Domains do not grant additional spells. Each domain grants one or more abilities related to the domain. Most such abilities require the expenditure of at least one token. Right now, only casters may take domains, but I’m not convinced this limitation is strictly necessary. Some interesting character concepts that don’t require spellcasting could make use of domains.
Token Pools
Level.....Token Pool.....Maximum Spend Rate
1......4.....1
2......5.....1
3......6.....1
4......8.....2
5......9.....2
6....10.....3
7....11.....3
8....13.....4
9....14.....4
10..15.....5
11..16.....5
12..18.....6
13..19.....6
14..20.....7
15..21.....7
16..23.....8
17..24.....8
18..25.....9
19..26.....9
20..28...10
Sorcerer Spells Known
Level.....0.....1st.....2nd.....3rd.....4th.....5th.....6th.....7th.....8th.....9th
1......5......3
2......6......4
3......7......5
4......8......6......3
5......9......7......4
6....10......8......5......3
7....11......9......6......4
8....12....10......7......5......3
9....13....11......8......6......4
10..14....12......9......7......5......3
11..15....13.....10......8......6......4
12..16....14.....11......9......7......5......3
13..17....15.....12....10......8......6......4
14..18....16.....13....11......9......7......5......3
15..19....17.....14....12....10......8......6......4
16..20....18.....15....13....11......9......7......5......3
17..21....19.....16....14....12....10......8......6......4
18..22....20.....17....15....13....11......9......7......5......3
19..23....21.....18....16....14....12....10......8......6......4
20..24....22.....19....17....15....13....11......9......7......5
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- it should discourage casters from blowing their wad as quickly as possible when a combat starts.
