D&D 5E Toll the Chest

[Maxperson]

A mimic can't even speak. It certainly can't tell lies, so no, I don't think Deception is appropriate in the slightest to resolve anything the mimic is trying to do.

Re-read deception. It's a lot more than voice, nor is sound even required. It's also deceiving through...............................appearance. Exactly like a Mimic does.

 

[James Gasik]

I'm not sure it's Deception either. Looking at the Disguise Kit, it says it allows you to add your proficiency bonus to ability checks you make to create a visual disguise. Which is what the Mimic is bypassing with it's ability. If Deception was required to make a disguise, the Kit wouldn't exist- since proficiency in Deception already lets you add your proficiency bonus to Deception checks.

The roll to make a Disguise, I presume, is what would normally be checked against for people to realize someone is disguised. Where Deception would come in is when you interact with someone pretending to be a person they are not, and their acting ability comes into play.

The Mimic doesn't need to do anything at all to play the role of an inanimate object. As long as it doesn't react to something, it has a foolproof disguise.

Now, that having been said, it's a living creature, I assume it's going to react to taking damage the same way as anyone else, flinching or even yelping in pain. So throwing a rock or a firebolt at it will cause it to react, and reveal it's true nature. The way I would rule this, to do otherwise would require the same effort on the Mimic's part as a caster maintaining concentration on a spell when injured.

Also note that while the Mimic appears to be an object, it's description doesn't say it assumes the texture or hardness of one, and, in fact, we know it's covered in sticky glue. So even poking it with a stick is going to reveal it's true nature quite readily.

No cautious party is going to be surprised by this creature. It's disguise is just that, something to lull fools to their doom.

 

[Maxperson]

I'm not sure it's Deception either. Looking at the Disguise Kit, it says it allows you to add your proficiency bonus to ability checks you make to create a visual disguise. Which is what the Mimic is bypassing with it's ability. If Deception was required to make a disguise, the Kit wouldn't exist- since proficiency in Deception already lets you add your proficiency bonus to Deception checks.

I wondered about that as well, but Deceptions says...

"Your Charisma (Deception) check determines whether you can convincingly hide the truth, either verbally or through your actions. This deception can encompass everything from misleading others through ambiguity to telling outright lies. Typical situations include trying to fast-talk a guard, con a merchant, earn money through gambling, pass yourself off in a disguise..."

So doesn't have to be verbal and can be a disguise. Maybe there are just multiple ways to attempt disguise.

The roll to make a Disguise, I presume, is what would normally be checked against for people to realize someone is disguised. Where Deception would come in is when you interact with someone pretending to be a person they are not, and their acting ability comes into play.

Such as acting like a chest or table!

The Mimic doesn't need to do anything at all to play the role of an inanimate object. As long as it doesn't react to something, it has a foolproof disguise.

Agreed. It doesn't need to roll to succeed. This debate stems back to @Hriston saying that there should be a roll to see if you can detect the Mimic. Hiding is objectively the wrong skill, since RAW literally says you cannot hide from something that can see you and the potential victims are staring straight at the thing. That just leaves Deception(or a disguise kit) as a potential skill to use.

Now, that having been said, it's a living creature, I assume it's going to react to taking damage the same way as anyone else, flinching or even yelping in pain. So throwing a rock or a firebolt at it will cause it to react, and reveal it's true nature.

You don't even have to hurt it. Even a harmless object will stick to its adhesive hide.

Also note that while the Mimic appears to be an object, it's description doesn't say it assumes the texture or hardness of one, and, in fact, we know it's covered in sticky glue. So even poking it with a stick is going to reveal it's true nature quite readily.

Yep!

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The mimic has a false appearance that it uses to lure adventurers close enough to launch an attack

No it doesn't. It depends on its prey touching it and becoming stuck. As with most trap hunters, if the prey isn't trapped it is unlikely to attack unless it's in self defense.

as the mimic stays very still in its object form, they have no direct evidence they have encountered a creature at all.

PCs don't need evidence of a threat in order to attack something. If they want to shoot an arrow into every piece of furniture they come across they are free to do that.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Also note that while the Mimic appears to be an object, it's description doesn't say it assumes the texture or hardness of one, and, in fact, we know it's covered in sticky glue. So even poking it with a stick is going to reveal it's true nature quite readily.

This. The mimic looks exactly like the object it is impersonating, and we can take it that it sounds like it so long as it doesn't move and doesn't have a distinctive smell to give it away. However, we do know it doesn't feel like a chest. And as such, if it's suspected it's fairly easy to verify ["I wad up a ball of paper and throw it at the chest"]. Although some devious trickster might pour resin over a chest!

Really, in D&D you expect the players to disarm most of the traps and suss out most of the mimics. That gives the players a warm glow of satisfaction, and the DM a genuine challenge in trying to catch them out.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

No it doesn't. It depends on its prey touching it and becoming stuck. As with most trap hunters, if the prey isn't trapped it is unlikely to attack unless it's in self defense.

This is incorrect.

Per the MM: "A mimic in its altered form is nearly unrecognizable until potential prey blunders into its reach, whereupon the monster sprouts pseudopods and attacks."

PCs don't need evidence of a threat in order to attack something. If they want to shoot an arrow into every piece of furniture they come across they are free to do that.

True.

 

[Hriston]

So, I'm looking straight at the mimic - so, I can see it right?

You can see its false appearance which, because it has succeeded at remaining motionless, is indistinguishable from an ordinary chest. There is disagreement in this thread about whether this counts as noticing a threat for the purpose of determining surprise once combat begins.

Now, I'm not 100% sure that it is, in fact, a mimic, but, I'm strongly suspicious that it might be. At the very least, I'm very suspicious of a trap of some sort. It's a pretty obvious one. Now, standing off several feet, I lob a damaging spell at the mimic (I think most people here have allowed the spell to work) and damage it.

For me, this action declaration invokes the combat rules so the spellcasting can be resolved in initiative order, which necessitates the determination of surprise. Clearly the mimic has noticed the party because they aren't trying to be stealthy, but has the party noticed the mimic? Many in this thread would say they have, but I would disagree because the DM did not describe to the players that a mimic or a creature was in the room but only what they perceived as a chest. That the "chest" is actually a mimic is still hidden information. The party has been lured close enough to the mimic that it can reach them in one move, and they're about to blunder into combat with it, so it would appear that while it still has the element of surprise is the time for the mimic to spring its trap.

But, because it hadn't moved, I'm surprised? Seriously?

To be clear and at the risk of repeating what I said upthread, if I were the DM in this scenario, I would let the dice determine whether the mimic remained motionless or not as long as at least one party member was watching for hidden threats. It seems some other posters would rule with certainty that the mimic does not give itself away with motion which may correlate to those who don't want the consequences of the mimic's success in maintaining its false appearance to include surprise. On the other hand, I haven't heard anyone say they would rule with certainty that the mimic fails to remain motionless.

Kinda the same thing about monsters around a corner. Sure, if I'm just walking in an area where I am not being careful at all, then a monster around the corner is probably going to surprise me. But, I'm in a highly dangerous area, being careful, looking all around, and I come to a corner and carefully look around the corner, ready for danger and BAM! I'm surprised by the three orcs around the corner?

Seriously? This is how you would rule this?

If the orcs are trying to be stealthy, they should have a chance to surprise you. If you're being careless and not keeping watch for hidden threats, their attack would surprise you automatically as long as they're trying to be stealthy. If you're being careful, but all their Stealth rolls win a contest with your passive Perception, which is not easy for three creatures, then you're surprised when they attack. The rules assume adventurers are pretty much always being careful, but sometimes there are other tasks that are worth the risk.

 

[Hriston]

No it doesn't. It depends on its prey touching it and becoming stuck.

Its prey do become stuck if it hits them with a pseudopod. Since the party is within 15 feet and not getting themselves stuck voluntarily, it might as well help them out.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I would disagree because the DM did not describe to the players that a mimic or a creature was in the room but only what they perceived as a chest.

The DM doesn't describe that a troll is a creature either. The DM just describes what the PCs can detect with their senses, not game-mechanic information.

Its prey do become stuck if it hits them with a pseudopod. Since the party is within 15 feet and not getting themselves stuck voluntarily, it might as well help them out.

Predators want to eat, not comit suicide. INT 5 is a very smart animal, certainly smart enough to count six well-armed adventurers and decide that it's best move is to not draw attention to itself unless it has a clear advantage.

 

[Hriston]

The DM doesn't describe that a troll is a creature either. The DM just describes what the PCs can detect with their senses, not game-mechanic information.

This depends on the DM. I think if the description of the troll is adequate, it will be obvious that it's a creature.

Predators want to eat, not comit suicide. INT 5 is a very smart animal, certainly smart enough to count six well-armed adventurers and decide that it's best move is to not draw attention to itself unless it has a clear advantage.

The cleric is targeting it with a damage-dealing spell. It could certainly decide to stay still and hope it makes its save, but it would lose the element of surprise. That seems more like squandering an advantage to me.