D&D 5E Tome of Beasts 5E

[Sacrosanct]

Take the CRs with a giant grain of salt. I was part of a group that did playtesting for some of those monsters, and one of them at least is way OP for it's CR. They obviously didn't listen to our feedback I can't recall the name off the top of my head, but it was CR5 I think, with at will magic missiles and a buttload of other abilities and reactions and whatnot.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

Like others, I really appreciate this book. Like others, I find some of the CR's a little funky. In my case, however, I actually prefer that these monsters are a little on the harder side as my group of players includes fairly optimized melee characters who demolish monsters.

The first time they fought Iron Ghouls, they were quite surprised on how tough they were.

 

[Dan Dillon]

Defensive CR: 6
Attack CR: 9
Total CR: 7.5

So, yes that is OP compared to the MM. These things a really easy to check, I am surprised the got it so far off.

Did you calculate this with the listed damage value of 20 for the glaive? Because that appears to be an error. 1d10 + 4 is in fact an average of 9. Not 20. O_O

I would guess the defensive CR was counted as 5 because it's only 1 AC above expected for CR 5 (143 hp is in the 5 range), and since poison damage is generally underrepresented on PCs, the designer/developer of the Iron Ghoul thought it would artificially inflate the CR, and essentially become free XP.

With the offensive CR (taking the correct glaive damage into account) clocking it at 5 (35 average damage for bite and claw, +7 is only 1 above expected), you get a solid CR 5 average.

I suspect that's what's going on there, anyway.

 

[dave2008]

Did you calculate this with the listed damage value of 20 for the glaive? Because that appears to be an error. 1d10 + 4 is in fact an average of 9. Not 20. O_O

You are correct, I didn't even look at the damage calculation!

I would guess the defensive CR was counted as 5 because it's only 1 AC above expected for CR 5 (143 hp is in the 5 range), and since poison damage is generally underrepresented on PCs, the designer/developer of the Iron Ghoul thought it would artificially inflate the CR, and essentially become free XP.

CR 5 baseline is AC 14, so the defensive CR is still 6 (could be higher with its condition immunities)

With the offensive CR (taking the correct glaive damage into account) clocking it at 5 (35 average damage for bite and claw, +7 is only 1 above expected), you get a solid CR 5 average.

I suspect that's what's going on there, anyway.

Yes, the Offensive CR should be 5 with the correct damage. That makes this beast a CR 5.5, which is acceptable to me. The MM would list as CR 6 because it tends to round up and the condition immunities. But CR 5 seems fine (if you notice the glaive damage is off)

I will have to edit my first post. Thank you!

 

[Dan Dillon]

CR 5 baseline is AC 14, so the defensive CR is still 6 (could be higher with its condition immunities)

I mean, I'm looking at the chart in my DMG right now, and I'm seeing CR 5 expects AC 15, 131-145 hit points.

Condition immunities don't factor into CR.

Pg 279: "A monster can be immune to one or more debilitating conditions, and these immunities have no bearing on its challenge rating."

Still looks like a firm average CR of 5 with no rounding to me.

 

[dave2008]

I mean, I'm looking at the chart in my DMG right now, and I'm seeing CR 5 expects AC 15, 131-145 hit points.

Condition immunities don't factor into CR.

Pg 279: "A monster can be immune to one or more debilitating conditions, and these immunities have no bearing on its challenge rating."

Still looks like a firm average CR of 5 with no rounding to me.

Interesting, I must have an error in my spreadsheet - I will have to get that corrected! Thank you for the heads up! That's what I get for focusing 90% of my time on CR20+ monsters!

 

[Dan Dillon]

You bet!

 

[CrimsonCarcharodon]

So far the Tome of Beasts is my favorite monster book of any edition. I've been working on some Spelljammer stuff and the void dragon is just perfect for that kind of crazy, high power D&D.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

CRs are all over the place, but the book is sooooo good! I use it frequently.

I also love the book, I am just a bit frustrated because this adds another level of work on my part as a relatively new to 5E DM. I dont have enough experience with this edition to be able to eyeball and know if it will be a cakewalk or tpk.

 

[ssvegeta555]

From my understanding the monsters are tougher than MM monsters. How do the monsters stack up to a 3 man party? Are they a bit too tough for such a small group of the same level?

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