Tome of Horrors overlaps with new Fiend Folio

[tburdett]

I dont have even a drop of ill will for anyone over at WotC and I dont want anyone here to take this as some example of WotC being evil.

Clark

Don't worry Clark, we have plenty of other examples that they're evil, we don't need to use this one!

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Well, at the very least, the unintentional/unplanned overlaps provide the same benefit as Orcus and the others: There are now OGC versions of them available.

And, as I stated earlier, more choice is a good thing. I mean, this provides a bit of leeway for DMs. Here's a "lesser" in one book, and a "greater" in another. Here's a "North Mountain" version in one book, and a "Eastern Mountain" version in another. Here's the ones that hail from the 412th Layer of the Abyss, and here are the ones that dwell on the 599th Layer.

I fail to see the bad in this.

 

[Gez]

And, as I stated earlier, more choice is a good thing. I mean, this provides a bit of leeway for DMs. Here's a "lesser" in one book, and a "greater" in another.

Indeed, I use that reasonning. Groaning Spirit are lesser Banshees, and there is also the Keening Spirit template for "True Banshees" (GS and Banshees are just some variation on pregen monsters, for when I don't want to compute a template). Demonic knights being outsiders rather than death knights, they also are a lightly different beast -- they are death knights that have been finally destroyed, but somewhat resurrected by Orcus or a chaotic evil deity of death to continue to serve (I've also added zovvuts from MM2 to the list of demons they may summon, like glabrezus).

Similarily, shadow demons from the ToH are shadow tanar'ri (they do have all the tanar'ri traits), while those from the BoVD are unaligned shadow demons.

 

[Alzrius]

I dont have even a drop of ill will for anyone over at WotC and I dont want anyone here to take this as some example of WotC being evil.

I'm quite impressed with you Clark. Were I in your position, I don't think I could be that big about something like this.

My reaction to this whole fiasco isn't really being angry at WotC so much as disappointed in them. They're the creators of, and leaders in, the d20 gaming industry, and then they do something like this. It's rather disheartening.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again Olive mate!

yeah, but the focus was on higher CR monters in the mm2,

I was hoping that would have been a consistent trend though now. Their reasoning with the MM2 was that campaigns have had two years to grow and ascend in power etc...

and while I know your game is different,

not everyone has much use for monsters over CR 20.

Is 10% too much to ask? Even 5%?

Would it hurt so much to have maybe a few Arch-Fiends, one or two epic monsters and a handful of others over CR 20 when you include over 150 monsters!?

I'm really not with this whole "books must be independant of one another" mantra that WotC have got going. Thats partly why (in my opinion) the Tome of Horrors is in many ways a superior volume. Its got something for everyone.

The focus of this book is definitely on the planes. A huge number of creatures are extraplanar.

Well thats something.

I really would recomend it. If you like fiends and extraplanar creatures, it's fatastic. The fiendish PrCs are really seriously great. It's funny, but every book I buy makes me think how i'd do my campaign differently if I was starting again... maybe it's time for TPK

There are a number of things I want to pick up at Gencon UK. The Fiend Folio is on that list but probably not top of it, so I guess we will have to see how the fundage holds out.

 

[Olive]

Is 10% too much to ask? Even 5%?

Would it hurt so much to have maybe a few Arch-Fiends, one or two epic monsters and a handful of others over CR 20 when you include over 150 monsters!?

no, it wouldn't have been to much to ask. better hope that the next book has a few...

 

[blackshirt5]

I was hoping that would have been a consistent trend though now. Their reasoning with the MM2 was that campaigns have had two years to grow and ascend in power etc...

Is 10% too much to ask? Even 5%?

Would it hurt so much to have maybe a few Arch-Fiends, one or two epic monsters and a handful of others over CR 20 when you include over 150 monsters!?

I'm really not with this whole "books must be independant of one another" mantra that WotC have got going. Thats partly why (in my opinion) the Tome of Horrors is in many ways a superior volume. Its got something for everyone.

Just pointing out that some of us restart campaigns, so not all of us are up to the igh levels yet. However, I see your point.

I agree, I'd like to see more High Level and Epic monsters(hopefully better ones than the FiendWurm).

And I too wish that they'd use the material in the other books when making a new book. That's what it's there for, isn't it?

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Well, considering the announcement that some time after 3.5 is released, Epic and DDG material is going into the SRD, than I'd say we should likely see more integration of these rules in WotC and 3rd Party releases. So, I'd say another 6-9 months for the release (just a guestimet, mind you), followed by a few months of material development, and then 21+ games should get a boost in material.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Olive mate!

no, it wouldn't have been to much to ask. better hope that the next book has a few...

What can you do though, you pays your money and takes your choice.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi blackshirt5 mate!

Just pointing out that some of us restart campaigns, so not all of us are up to the high levels yet.

Absolutely, but why can't WotC acknowledge that a percentage of players do actually play epic/immortal campaigns and donate a small percentage (not like I am asking for much) of these books accordingly.

I mean I don't think I am being unreasonable here!?

I am happy supporting WotC (I have every major release to date), why can't they support me (and many others)!?

Out of the 150+ monsters in the Fiend Folio would it just have bust their chops to have maybe three or four Arch-fiends (General of Gehenna, Zuggtmoy etc.) and a like number of epic monsters!?

However, I see your point.

You know it makes sense.

I agree, I'd like to see more High Level and Epic monsters(hopefully better ones than the FiendWurm).

Well, funny you mention it...

And I too wish that they'd use the material in the other books when making a new book. That's what it's there for, isn't it?

Maybe WotC will have a change of heart soon...okay I can dream can't I.