tome of horrors vs creature collection

[Psion]

All three books are 3.0, not 3.5.

CCI was made before the format for monsters was finalized so it does not conform to even 3.0 monster rules in many cases.

CC Revised is 3.5

If you select CC, then, as others have hinted, only go for the revised (Black cover) version.

I make use of all three of them, but for my campaign's purposes, I get more use out of CC (Revised) and CC II. Others are WAY overstating their supposed world specificness. If you take the "placeholder" approach and replace Scarred Lands entities and tweak to taste, you have some dandy, campaign ready creatures. Tempus Twins, Ratmen, and Hags all have important roles in my games.

ToH (and ToH II) are to be lauded for their variety and for bringing back many classic creatures. The creatures are more of the basic "dungeon stock" (or "wilderness random encounter) variety, which can be good or bad depending on your campaigning style. For making villains and creatures with motivations and goals, CCR/CCII are a bit stronger IME. I have a few plans for creatures from these books too... Inphidians, warden jacks. I want to use the psionic elemental, but I'd have to update it...

If they lack CC Revised, I'd pick up CC II and ToH; they are two of my most used creatures book.

 

[Voadam]

CC Revised is 3.5

True but he said Creature Collection, not Creature Collection Revised and he's getting it from a used bookstore so it is likely he is talking about the white covered 3.0 Creature Collection instead of the black covered 3.5 Creature Collection Revised..

 

[Barendd Nobeard]

Okay the Sage inputs his 2 cents:

Firstly CC 1 is kind of cruddy even by 3.0 standards. It barely follows any of the 3.0 concepts and there are some truly wonky things such as constructs having Con scores as well undead.

Thus I'd say get CC Revised. Even though it's 3.5, it's still compatible with 3.0 and d20 stuff.

CC 2 is a much better book compared to CC1, mechanics wise, (though there's some stuff I'd fix like Belsameth spider and a few skills for creatures like the Ratmen)

Tome of Horrors, quite frankly, is best for any old game. It's mechanically sound, some great ole and new, PLUS Scott Greene proves he deserves the title of "Monster Man."

However since you ARE running the Diamond Throne, recommend picking up Legacy of Dragons (in PDF if you're cheap.) It has some ideas of what you can use in Diamond Throne. That or the Diamond Throne DM's screen.

But Tome of Horrors, that will serve you very well.

Wow. The "Duly appointed Evangelist, Herald, and Sage of the Scarred Lands" suggested Tome of Horrors over the Scarred Lands books. That's a pretty compelling argument in favor of ToH!

I'm in Milwaukee and you can have my CC and CCII for free, woodelf. I don't think they'll fetch much on eBay, so you can have have them for shipping (or for free if you want to come to Milwuakee and pick them up). Then you can buy ToH and have all three!

 

[Voadam]

Wow. The "Duly appointed Evangelist, Herald, and Sage of the Scarred Lands" suggested Tome of Horrors over the Scarred Lands books. That's a pretty compelling argument in favor of ToH!

I'm in Milwaukee and you can have my CC and CCII for free, woodelf. I don't think they'll fetch much on eBay, so you can have have them for shipping (or for free if you want to come to Milwuakee and pick them up). Then you can buy ToH and have all three!

Got any more monster books you don't want?

(Tome, Tome, Tome, Monsters of Faerun, Fiend Folio, MMII, Slayer's Guide to Elementals, Denizens of Avadnu, Dangerous Denizens of Telene, The Fast Forward Monster Book, Slayer's guide to Undead, Monsters of the Boundless Blue, Tome, Tome, Tome?)

 

[woodelf]

I'm in Milwaukee and you can have my CC and CCII for free, woodelf. I don't think they'll fetch much on eBay, so you can have have them for shipping (or for free if you want to come to Milwuakee and pick them up). Then you can buy ToH and have all three!

Sure, what the heck. If nothing else, they'll help with the RPG library i'm hoping to start up this fall. Emailing is apparently disabled on the forums. If you go to the Impossible Dream's website, you can find my email address and let me know a snailmail address, and i'll send you money. Orwe can do something with snailmail. Or whatever.

Thanks!!

 

[woodelf]

Tome of Horrors, quite frankly, is best for any old game. It's mechanically sound, some great ole and new, PLUS Scott Greene proves he deserves the title of "Monster Man."

However since you ARE running the Diamond Throne, recommend picking up Legacy of Dragons (in PDF if you're cheap.) It has some ideas of what you can use in Diamond Throne. That or the Diamond Throne DM's screen.

But Tome of Horrors, that will serve you very well.

Well, i'm not running Diamond Throne. Guess i could've been more explicit about that in my initial post. I'm gonna use the Al Qadim maps, 'cause they're purdy, but i haven't decided how much of the Al Qadim setting i'm gonna use, if any. I'm tentatively thinking of an overarching plot theme of "corruption of the natural world"--but instead of undead as the major baddies, evil plant-critters (corrpution) and/or clockworks (unnatural life). The former will work particularly well with the greenbond, while the latter should stymie the greenbond and give the warmain and runethane (particularly) stuff to play with.

Nonetheless, i've been poking Monte's site, to see what i think of Legacy of the Dragons--after all, i love the other Arcana Unearthed stuff i've seen, so i should at least give the monster book a chance. It might be worth it just for the fetishes.

Now, what i really want is Fantasy Bestiary. But probably not badly enough to pay $35-$45 for it. I've yet to see an Atlas Games RPG book that i didn't love, for any system (provided the topic interested me), so i'm sure i'd be pleased with it. It just seems like an awful lot to invest in a book of D20 System monsters. Then again, maybe this'll turn into a long-running campaign, and then it'd definitely be worth it.

 

[MonsterMash]

Personally I prefer ToH and ToH II to the Creature Collections because they are not tied to a specific setting. Tome of Horrors for any gamer from the old days has a lot of old favourites so its a slight matter of sentiment there.

 

[DragonLancer]

I'd suggest the ToH. Its classic monsters and NG known how to pull them off well. The CC books though good, are full of the more bizarre types.

 

[Voadam]

Now, what i really want is Fantasy Bestiary. But probably not badly enough to pay $35-$45 for it. I've yet to see an Atlas Games RPG book that i didn't love, for any system (provided the topic interested me), so i'm sure i'd be pleased with it. It just seems like an awful lot to invest in a book of D20 System monsters. Then again, maybe this'll turn into a long-running campaign, and then it'd definitely be worth it.

I can heartily recommend it (bias alert, I wrote eight monsters in it). It has very well described monsters with plenty of flavor and adventure hooks. The cross reference tables for type, subtype, environment, CR, etc. are very useful and it has quick reference icons for the type of challenge role the monsters fill (trickster, combat, magical, epic, etc.). It is 3.0 and expensive but huge and enjoyable.

 

[Desdichado]

I'll be the dissenting voice and say that Tome of Horrors may not be what you're looking for. In my opinion, it converted all the monsters that most of us hoped would be quietly swept under the rug and forgotten. There was no reason for half of the monsters in the book to ever have been updated or brought back.

CC2 is a great book, IMO. I use it all the time. I use CC1 all the time too, for that matter, and despite the complaints about it, I haven't ever had a problem with anything in it I've used.

Then again, I'm the guy who claims the Monsternomicon is the best monster book ever. Between that and Book of Fiends, I hardly need any other monster books.