toning down spellcasters

[Stormborn]

Since Shadowdragon wasn't really asking for a debate about the merits of the spellcasting classes v. other classes at high levels I wont comment on what I think about that.

If you want to keep the standard CR (a difficult as it is at higher levels to figure) simply require that after level X (wherever you think the power creep is too much) simply require them to take a level in a nonspellcasting class every other level. Fighter and Rogue offer some good choices but Expert is actually a viable way to bost both HD (IIRC) and skills and is very adaptive. If you feel it is too weak for a PC class, throw in an extra feat at every other level of Expert.

 

[DonTadow]

sorry if i insulted you

but...

if you are GM though then you might want to have more encounters or play a low/no magic

camaign

also try ambushiing the characters while they camp or during "downtime"

Among other ways. You can also send fortitude and reflex saves at your spellcasters during encounters and also make sure their using their concentration checks and not casting willy nilly. Smart enemies know that spellcasters can be dangerous and will try to take them out in the first turn or two if they can. If anything they will at least engage them to prevent them from casting without a con check. Drow and cratures with SR are always delightful against casters.

 

[S'mon]

sorry if i insulted you

but...

if you are GM though then you might want to have more encounters or play a low/no magic

camaign

also try ambushiing the characters while they camp or during "downtime"

Ok.

I do all those things - I somewhat nerf casters, I run a lowish magic game, I _occasionally_ have surprise monster attacks.

 

[DonTadow]

Ok.

I do all those things - I somewhat nerf casters, I run a lowish magic game, I _occasionally_ have surprise monster attacks.

Does it work for you?

 

[Arkhandus]

Hrm. If you want to tone down spellcasters...... Maybe change it so that they can only regain spell slots once per week, rather than once per day. So the spell slots they ready have to last them a week.... They'll have to make more use of crossbows and such to conserve spells, and can't just teleport about willy-nilly. Can't always camp out for a week waiting for your party's mage to get his spells back, right? Especially not in a dungeon, or when trying to accomplish something like saving a damsel from an evil wizard's tower, or saving the king from an assassination attempt that is due to occur in just a few days, giving the PCs just enough time to make it to the capitol on foot. Many campaigns don't leave the PCs with all the time in the world to rest between encounters.

 

[The_Universe]

Just remove the spellcasting classes and use Grim Tales magic. Make the "Magical Adept" talent tree options Feats and call it good.

Alternatively, just use Grim Tales.

I think Mearl's "Iron Heros" is going to be something close to what you're looking for, as well.

 

[S'mon]

Does it work for you?

Currently, yeah - the spellcasters aren't hugely overshadowing the non-casters. I used to have a player of a high level Wizard who regularly ground the game to a halt because he'd insist on resting every time he'd cast a couple of spells (and would take hours of real-time reselecting his spells for the day). He would do stuff like making the party camp outside the BBEG's front door after 1 encounter where they alerted the BBEG's guards. Then the BBEG & co would attack in the middle of the night (Dispelling the Rope Trick they usually camped in), the Wizard would teleport to safety and a bunch of non-spellcasting PCs would get slaughtered.

 

[farscapesg1]

Hrm. If you want to tone down spellcasters...... Maybe change it so that they can only regain spell slots once per week, rather than once per day. So the spell slots they ready have to last them a week.... They'll have to make more use of crossbows and such to conserve spells, and can't just teleport about willy-nilly. Can't always camp out for a week waiting for your party's mage to get his spells back, right? Especially not in a dungeon, or when trying to accomplish something like saving a damsel from an evil wizard's tower, or saving the king from an assassination attempt that is due to occur in just a few days, giving the PCs just enough time to make it to the capitol on foot. Many campaigns don't leave the PCs with all the time in the world to rest between encounters.

Oh God, stop the madness! If you do this, then you have to increase at least the wizard and sorcerer's BAB to equal a cleric. Otherwise, you have a character that can't hit the side of a barn with his crossbow. Not to mention, since he can't cast much in the way of spells without becoming completely worthless, the character is going to be setting around doing nothing in most battles.

 

[Voldrath]

Ok heres one for you. How bout imphasizing the fact that spellcasting is suposed to be tiring to the mage? something allong the lines of one point of nonleathal dammage per spell level.

And realy once a week? Theres toning down and then theres gouging in the eye with a red hot poker.

 

[wuyanei]

Well, the high-level craziness of mage-types stem less from raw damage output and more from the sheer number of options open to them. If you find that to be a problem, try requiring that all magic-users play a warlock-style magic user (basically, you only know 12 spells but have unlimited use in each) instead.

You might have to make up a few invocations, and find a way to adapt for 'divine warlocks', but this should drastically cut down on the high-level dominance of magic users.

In this case, spells are still available, but can only be cast through scrolls. They are thus self-limiting. You also get rid of the 'I wanna rest' issue once and for all. Flavor-wise, the warlock-mage is actually a better 'modeling' of the Faustian mage.

Just my two cents.