Toning Down the Magic

[S'mon]

Past all these concerns is that CR becomes almost useless in a low magic campaign. You have to be able to look at the PCs and guage their effectiveness individually against most critters, because many of the expected abilities for PCs will be gone. Then if you use lots of NPCs, you've got to spend time statting them out. Its definately a lot of work.

By and large though I find just not using creatures with CR over Party Level works, at least at levels 1-10. OK a CR 5 troll can easily kill 5th level PCs, but that applies in standard-magic too.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Grim Tales is a great option when you want to seriosly tone down the feel of magic in a campaign.

 

[VirgilCaine]

I don't have a problem, in theory. I hate low magic games and knowing the strict limits of spells (such as scrying) IMO would make it easier to challenge PCs.

 

[Grazzt]

Of course, it's debateable how useful the CR system is anyway, unless you have a party of 4 adventures with the standard array of ability scores, magic items and the four standard classes. I've never found it difficult to run a low magic d20 game because of that. But I don't use the CR system as an absolute yardstick for planning encounters and never have.

Agreed. We made it what like 20 years or more without a CR system.

As for the low magic aspect, IMC, spellcasters are all multiclassed and have to be. No character (including NPCs) can ever have more than 1/2 their total character level in a true spellcasting class (cleric, druid, wizard, sorcerer).

This really tones magic down because the maximum level spell anyone will ever get is 5th (at character level 18th at the earliest....for example: 9th-level fighter/9th-level wizard).

Note, a character's caster level [for determination of spell effects, etc] is the level of his true spellcasting class, plus 1/3 of all non-spellcasting classes. So, the 9th-level fighter/9th-level wizard above would have a caster level of 12th (9 from wizard, plus 3 from his fighter levels) to determine spell effects (range, damage, etc.)

Another thing I did was remove all Item Creation feats. They are still in the game, just not accessible as feats anymore. They are the realm of the Artificer prestige class. You wanna make magic items, you take levels in that class (which requires a lot of ranks in various Craft skills, some non-combative feats, etc.....). The class is rare (because most of my players dont dump ranks in Craft skills or take a lot of non-combative feats and never qualify for the class), thus magic item creation is extremely rare (no magic shops either).

Bottom line, it may not be for everyone, but I dig it and my players dig it...and there ya go.

(Ive offset some of the delayed magic by introducing non-magical healing in the form of herbs for example; also other minor things such as tattoo magic, herbal magic, etc exist...so characters arent completely nerfed or hampered....just toned way down in the magic department. )

 

[The Shaman]

To deal with the issue of spellcaster dominance at higher levels in a rare magic game, I read an interesting suggestion that I may try: eliminating evocation spells.

 

[jmucchiello]

Has anyone else knee jerk reacted this way to dealing with a power game, did you take the low magic game to high levels, and how did it work out for you?

I just let the players continue to advance normally. Yes, high level play is difficult and a party of 4 or more characters can have an awesome array of abilities. You're the DM, you have the universe to work with. Use it. Most people who do play high levels straight usually post on these threads that you just throw stuff at high level parties, they can usually handle anything. Even if you think it'll be too powerful. And if they don't, start a new 1st level game.

 

[twofalls]

We discussed it for an hour before the game started last night. The power gamer was very unhappy, didn't want to claim that he was unhappy becasue he doesn't want to be labeled a munchkin, but those are his game tendancies. I didn't want to tell him that it was okay to enjoy playing that type of game, but just not with me as a GM because in order to do so I'd be appearing to give him the label that he doesn't want. <shrug> He settled on my allowing him to ditch his Mageblade, which couldn't be as powerful as he wanted him to be now, and took a fighter and claimed that he wanted to follow the exalted path. I told him what I told his wife who playes the priestess, you can tell me you want to be exalted, then walk your character down the exalted straight and narrow for two levels. If either of them can do that then thier gods may raise them to exalted status. Some of the exalted feats are a bit... um... strong. I have my suspicions about why he wants to do this, but we will see. He's a great guy and a good gamer, but he has these power gaming hangups.

With the spells I explained what I was aiming for, and ultimatly we left it at changing nothing for now. Players are going to be choosing spells with the understanding of the kind of game we are going for and I asked them to be adult about what spells they choose. If we need to comb over the spell lists because that isn't working them we will. At this point the only spellcaster is the Priestess and she is about to take a vow of pacifism... so it may all work out in the end. Part of the discussion last night was if the group could handle that type of a priest in the game. They decided yes with the power gamer not voting at all.

To see how the game played out last night you can read it here http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=129407.