Toning the Magic Down

Magic Slim said:
under your magic-reduced ME rules, how would you stat Gandalf and Sauron?

I would create Gandalf as a celestial human bard 20 with a ring of elemental command (fire) and a staff of power, plus maxed out Use Magic Device for using the staff. IMO this would be much more in line with the powers he displays in the books than giving him wizard or sorcerer progression.

Sauron is some sort of unique devil.
 

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nsruf said:
I would create Gandalf as a celestial human bard 20 with a ring of elemental command (fire) and a staff of power, plus maxed out Use Magic Device for using the staff. IMO this would be much more in line with the powers he displays in the books than giving him wizard or sorcerer progression.

Sauron is some sort of unique devil.

Sounds right - Sauron is an Outsider (and a demi-power in LoTR). For the Ringwraiths I'd suggest incorporeal (ghost touch equipment) undead Fighter-Clerics, the Witch-King could be up to Ftr10/Clr10 (something like Ftr 8/Clr 7 might be better though) and scale down from there. Mundane fire can clearly hurt them, of course.
 

S'mon said:
Sounds right - Sauron is an Outsider (and a demi-power in LoTR). For the Ringwraiths I'd suggest incorporeal (ghost touch equipment) undead Fighter-Clerics, the Witch-King could be up to Ftr10/Clr10 (something like Ftr 8/Clr 7 might be better though) and scale down from there. Mundane fire can clearly hurt them, of course.

The Loremaster prestige class might be suitable for Gandalf. I think for LoTR you'd need to eliminate all the travel spells - fly, teleport etc.
With that done Gandalf could be a Bard/Sorcerer/Loremaster, say.
Melkor & Ungoliant appeared to fly when they stole the Silmarils, but he's a greater god and she was arguably a demipower.
 

It seems to me that the simplest thing to do RE: spellcasters is to just limit all caster levels to Level 6 or something. Let'em multiclass only with the Fighter class.

One thing I do for my world is make all magic items hard-fought treasure. No Magic Kmarts, no cart-pushing 15th level Wizards selling magic items on the corner.

Just an idea. I don't like magic-rich worlds (FR) either.


wolfen
 

S'mon said:
I think for LoTR you'd need to eliminate all the travel spells - fly, teleport etc.
Good thing, then, that I'm an Intermediate Deity of the EN World Pantheon or else I couldn't teleport the thread to House Rules and would need to drag it there the hard way.

As it stands, though... *fwoosh*
 
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I third a "Let's move to Midnight!" type deal for toning down magic AND giving it a more middle earth type feel. AU is also another way to do a LITTLE tone down, but not quite Middle Earth style. In fact the more I think about it, yeah Midnight is DEFINATELY more fun and Middle Earthian magic than AU.
 

nsruf said:
While some of the main characters in ME can cast spells, there are hardly any full-fledged spellcasters. A very easy way to simulate this is to disallow wizards, sorcerers, clerics and druids completely - all spellcasting has to come from rangers, bards, and paladins. And since you are still using core classes as is, you don't have any balance problems.

The magic items problem should actually take care of itself, as the three "lesser" spellcasting classes have a hard time creating the more powerfull stuff.

I run a low magic, steam-punk game and this is how I did it. WARNING: this method has all sorts of problems for your players, most notably the lack of magical healing. Monsters need to be re-evaluated or outright changed. Certain tasks that should be easy suddenly become quite hard.

I would suggest this method as the one make magic the most unique. Gandalf becomes much closer to the special character he is meant to be (not human or elven at all).
 

Very soon Bad Axe Games will be cranking out Grim Tales. I use the rules to lower magic in my campaign and I really have enjoyed the results.


Disclaimer of conflict of interest: I work with Bad Axe.
 

I'm not really into low-magic campaigns myself, but out of curiosity, doesn't this change throw the CR system out of whack? Does Midnight change any of this?
 

I'm currently eliminating the wizard class, and only allowing sorcerers and clerics in my campaign. The spellcraft skill and detect magic spell have been removed, instead using either knowledge arcana, or knowledge religion to understand items and their magical properties. I've also eliminated tongues and comprehend languages, since that almost totally eliminates the power and mystery of having different languages.

Magic items IMC are based more on physical aspects of objects. Thus, troll's blood is the stuff of magical curing potions, and the hide of a displacer beast can be suitably made into a displacer cloak. Magical items demand more from a skilled master crafter than from a wizard. In addition, magic swords and armors gain their bonuses from craftsmanship or from properties of the metals themselves, not from a magical spell. That makes dwarves the supreme smiths of the land, and elves the crafters of all things from exotic woods--and there won't be any learned wizards or clerics who would dare say otherwise.

Some other changes I've thought over, but am not currently using:

Making magic items a focus device for casting spells. So, for instance, a scepter with a special crystal on the end might allow it's weilder to cast all spells related to light at up to 4th-level of ability. This would include heightened spells, or otherwise metamagiced versions of light spells. I would probably limit an item's powers by giving them charges, and requiring some special way to recharge the item.

Making the maximum spell level able to be cast equal to the casters ability modifier. Now, an 18 WIS only allows a cleric to cast 5th-level spells. It may encourage casters to take one or two additional age categories in their race in order to gain better ability bonuses for their class. Finally, meeting an old wizard means you should respect their abilities!

Anyway, there are some of the things I've thought about.
 

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